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Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

reuters.com

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Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#131

Post by richmarr »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #128
russellbeattie wrote: post #112

Boy Scouts of America is a discriminatory religious organization with a ridiculously long record of exclusionary policies [1]. They don't "welcome" gay scouts, but permit them. Atheists still aren't allowed to be scout leaders. As a parent I refused to let my son have anything to do with them. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_member...

I think it is important to distinguish between "freedom to act as you see fit" and "discrimation" per see. If you have a private organization and want to give good experiences to young men, then I think you should be able to do so. Someone else can make another organization for young women, or even one for both, each of these provides a unique experience for those who want it, and in a pluralistic society this kind o…

> I think it is important to distinguish between "freedom to act as you see fit" and "discrimation" per see

By all means try to distinguish between them. You haven't yet done so.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#132

Post by humanrebar »

sametmax wrote: post #89
BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #88

Will we see a total ban on single gender clubs in the future? And is that what we want? I don't get what is so wrong about having a few kids activities that are for just one of the genders. I think it's very healthy for kids to experience all the differences between boys and girls early on, to learn. But they should also be allowed to enjoy the company of just each other when they want to. It's an important process t…

It's like removing separation of genders for toilets and showers everywhere. The gender targetted marketting, clothes and pronuon. On paper, the body is natural and it's a useless artificial separation. In practice, our society is imperfect, social norms and biological instincts don't align with moral and economy and logistic are important factors. Besides, as you said, it's an interesting (and i believe benefecial)…

It is ironic when we homogenize society in the name of diversity. In most dictionaries "variety" and "diversity" are synonyms.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#133

Post by hanselot »

4ndr3vv wrote: post #98
BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #88

Will we see a total ban on single gender clubs in the future? And is that what we want? I don't get what is so wrong about having a few kids activities that are for just one of the genders. I think it's very healthy for kids to experience all the differences between boys and girls early on, to learn. But they should also be allowed to enjoy the company of just each other when they want to. It's an important process t…

"...we effectively stop teaching our children the values of masculinity and femininity" What "Values" are these? That Boys are tough and shouldn't cry and girls are good at sitting quietly doing crafts?

If there is such a thing as toxic masculinity, then I propose to you that there must be an inverse to it which is not toxic and thereby should be reinforced in youth. You can't have toxic masculinity, but suggest that toxic femininity does not also exist. And by that logic, the inverse of toxic femininity should also exist, meaning that yes, we should be teaching those that have different genders, different values. The relevance of a lesson in physical restraint when dealing with the average female, as the average male, should be self-evident, considering the fact that there exists a stigma about hitting women, yet when a guy gets hit it very often does not even register. This does not mean they can't be taught the values of both, it just suggests that if you want there to be the evil men that do nothing but perpetuate misandry, the inverse must exist also, and I can tell you right now, their not called feminists.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#134

Post by nailer »

bluecalm wrote: post #122
OskarS wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a number of circumstances where separating by gender is perfectly fine. Sports is an obvious one: because of gender differences in physiques, girls and boys compete at different levels, so the separation makes perfect sense. I'm just saying that it makes absolutely zero sense to do it for scouting. Scouting is about teaching kids to be self-reliant, to be confident in nature, to work well with other…

>>I'm just saying that it makes absolutely zero sense to do it for scouting Boys are stronger than girls so having boys only or girls only makes it easier to organize physical exercises/tests/requirements. It's also likely boys are in general interested in other things than girls so having gender separation allows more kids doing what they enjoy. One more reason could be that having genders separated removes the aspe…

I think your post is entirely reasonable (and it worries me to see generally acknowledged facts, like gender differences - girls interested in people, boys in systems - being downmodded on HN).

But there are girls with typically male interests and boys with typically female interests.

If a boy wants to do contemporary dance, give him an opportunity to do contemporary dance.

If a girl is into survival tests (making shelter, hunting food etc), give her the opportunity to test herself.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#135

Post by Lio »

OskarS wrote: post #96
BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #88

Will we see a total ban on single gender clubs in the future? And is that what we want? I don't get what is so wrong about having a few kids activities that are for just one of the genders. I think it's very healthy for kids to experience all the differences between boys and girls early on, to learn. But they should also be allowed to enjoy the company of just each other when they want to. It's an important process t…

I'm Swedish and grew up as a scout, and in Sweden scouting was made co-educational in the 1960s. I remember having my mind blown at finding out that this wasn't the case everywhere in the modern world. It just seemed like the most ridiculous thing to me, to separate scouting by gender. Saying that girls and boys couldn't be scouts together was equally absurd to me as saying that girls and boys couldn't go to school t…

Are Girl Guides a thing in Sweden?

If Guides exist are they co-education also?

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#136

Post by nailer »

laumars wrote: post #93
BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #88

Will we see a total ban on single gender clubs in the future? And is that what we want? I don't get what is so wrong about having a few kids activities that are for just one of the genders. I think it's very healthy for kids to experience all the differences between boys and girls early on, to learn. But they should also be allowed to enjoy the company of just each other when they want to. It's an important process t…

> Are we all becoming so politically correct that we effectively stop teaching our children the values of masculinity and femininity? In my experience masculinity and femininity are a concept we largely teach kids. I've seen so many boys who love musicals, dolls, dressing up, crafting and all the other activities often associated as "girls things". Yet the moment they're spotted doing it by a group of their peers, th…

Go find a lesbian mother's group. You won't find a group of kids more exposed to a year-0 style environment, where a large bunch of children are encouraged to specifically play with toys that are usually more popular with the other gender.

You also won't find a more exasperated set of parents who are blown away when most of their children seek out more common toys for their gender.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#137

Post by VLM »

BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #88

Will we see a total ban on single gender clubs in the future? And is that what we want? I don't get what is so wrong about having a few kids activities that are for just one of the genders. I think it's very healthy for kids to experience all the differences between boys and girls early on, to learn. But they should also be allowed to enjoy the company of just each other when they want to. It's an important process t…

No, only the values of masculinity.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#138

Post by laumars »

nailer wrote: post #136
laumars wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are we all becoming so politically correct that we effectively stop teaching our children the values of masculinity and femininity? In my experience masculinity and femininity are a concept we largely teach kids. I've seen so many boys who love musicals, dolls, dressing up, crafting and all the other activities often associated as "girls things". Yet the moment they're spotted doing it by a group of their peers, th…

Go find a lesbian mother's group. You won't find a group of kids more exposed to a year-0 style environment, where a large bunch of children are encouraged to specifically play with toys that are usually more popular with the other gender. You also won't find a more exasperated set of parents who are blown away when most of their children seek out more common toys for their gender.

You're only factoring in parental influences. Kids react a lot more to what other kids in their group (eg friends at school) play with than what their parents tell them to.

However I do take your point and I'm not suggesting there isn't a biological element at play as well. Just that the gender element is vastly overstated and in fact a great many girls do enjoy "boys stuff" and visa versa.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#139

Post by JoeAltmaier »

BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #88

Will we see a total ban on single gender clubs in the future? And is that what we want? I don't get what is so wrong about having a few kids activities that are for just one of the genders. I think it's very healthy for kids to experience all the differences between boys and girls early on, to learn. But they should also be allowed to enjoy the company of just each other when they want to. It's an important process t…

I don't think the BSA is opposing that. Its all about how the Girl Scouts have imploded, closing most of their camps and drastically reducing their program. For years our local Boy Scout camp has shared their facility with the local girls, so they would have some place to continue their activities. Now the BSA is making it official - girls are welcome.

And as others have said, sports are still gender-based. Even health clubs do this. Its not gone or banned, that's a straw man

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#140

Post by zamadatix »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #129
brobdingnagians wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is important to distinguish between "freedom to act as you see fit" and "discrimation" per see. If you have a private organization and want to give good experiences to young men, then I think you should be able to do so. Someone else can make another organization for young women, or even one for both, each of these provides a unique experience for those who want it, and in a pluralistic society this kind o…

The Boy Scouts of America has a congressional charter. They are not a run-of-the-mill private organization. Their discrimination is unacceptable as a publicly-chartered organization.

Does that mean anything or is it just honorific like most recognition of groups from the government? I think it's quite well established the Boy Scouts of America are a well recognized group regardless of this so I don't see how this is what makes them non run-of-the-mill.
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