Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA • Hacker News Board

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#91

Post by ycombobreaker » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:14 AM UTC

The current rules in cub scouts require separate dens for boys and girls. IMHO this is a sort of "separate but equal" treatment that barricades girls from joining (because it requires additional volunteer leadership and critical mass of youth membership), and would have to change before it becomes a credible threat.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#92

Post by gambiting » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:18 AM UTC

>>Are we all becoming so politically correct that we effectively stop teaching our children the values of masculinity and femininity?

I think there is a lot of very confusing messaging nowadays, that says that "men are women are equal and identical and we shouldn't have anything just for men or just for women" while also saying "women/men bring unique things to the table so we should put more/less value on that". You can't have it both ways. We can(and should!) treat everyone equally, but denying that men and women are different is just wrong.

Where I am from(Poland) scouts(harcerze) were always inclusive of both genders except for troops which tried to be more military-oriented - then women were still allowed but the groups were separate.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#93

Post by laumars » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:19 AM UTC

> Are we all becoming so politically correct that we effectively stop teaching our children the values of masculinity and femininity?

In my experience masculinity and femininity are a concept we largely teach kids. I've seen so many boys who love musicals, dolls, dressing up, crafting and all the other activities often associated as "girls things". Yet the moment they're spotted doing it by a group of their peers, they'll flip to "i hate dolls because they're girls toys" etc just to fit in.

And on the flip side, I've also seen plenty of girls who could be described as "tom boys" and really just love doing stuff that we often teach our kids to be a masculine property.

So I don't see it as being politically correct, I see it as humanity finally catching up that popular interests aren't so easily defined by boolean genders.

However as a former Scout I can testify that the actual reason Scouts have allowed girls into their groups was to compensate for dwindling membership. Some Scout groups resisted but many were forced to adopt mix gender simply to survive.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#94

Post by xc1005 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:27 AM UTC

No, for the girls it's fine. It is the boys who suffer long term, also from the school system that currently indoctrinates them against biology and their interests.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#95

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:33 AM UTC

Yeah.

Can't the Girl Scouts just change their name to Scouts GSA.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#96

Post by OskarS » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:33 AM UTC

I'm Swedish and grew up as a scout, and in Sweden scouting was made co-educational in the 1960s. I remember having my mind blown at finding out that this wasn't the case everywhere in the modern world. It just seemed like the most ridiculous thing to me, to separate scouting by gender. Saying that girls and boys couldn't be scouts together was equally absurd to me as saying that girls and boys couldn't go to school together. Equality in this was just the most natural thing in the world.

It's ridiculous that scouting isn't co-educational everywhere. The fact that Sweden didn't realize this until the 1960s is absurd, and the fact that there are people still resisting it today half a century later is downright shameful.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#97

Post by prawn » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:34 AM UTC

"Will we see a total ban on single gender clubs in the future? And is that what we want?"

Aren't they opening up their membership in this case to dominate the "scout" brand and capture a broader market?

"Are we all becoming so politically correct that we effectively stop teaching our children the values of masculinity and femininity?"

What are those values? Do they need to be taught? My son and daughter each demonstrate pretty typical gender traits, but not because of anything we've taught them. Each naturally gravitates to what they like most. We teach them general values and general skills. If there's something commonly considered gender-specific, usually they'll initiate/ask because they're interested.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#98

Post by 4ndr3vv » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:34 AM UTC

"...we effectively stop teaching our children the values of masculinity and femininity"

What "Values" are these? That Boys are tough and shouldn't cry and girls are good at sitting quietly doing crafts?

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#99

Post by ivanhoe » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:36 AM UTC

In my country scouts were just scouts, no separation, and in my view it was really a super-positive thing. I've made some good female friends there, had some of the first crushes and romances and all in all that gender mixed environment was much less toxic experience for me than for instance later when I was in a high-school which was technically oriented and had almost no girls at all. All male environment brings the aggression levels up a lot, just as all female environments tend to have much more power games, clans and "politics". When you mix genders people usually behave better (or at least they pretend to be less of a-holes) in my experience.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#100

Post by vegardx » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:36 AM UTC

The thing is that it really only have to work on a domestic level. I don't see any good reasons for international scout organizations, unless you want to make it political.