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China used Huawei to hack network, says report

theaustralian.com.au

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Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#101

Post by IllogicalLogic »

cbnotfromthere wrote: post #97
IllogicalLogic wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes. At the end of the day, the roads, high-speed rail, bridges, harbors, etc... the Chinese build can't be removed from the continent even if the individual countries do reneg on debt. This could create the kind of stable environment r…

"I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes." This is an absurd comparison. A normal comparison of hypotheticals would be Europeans today vs. Chinese investments today. "China has 10,000 years of documented history" That's an even more absurd claim, wow! Actually it's LESS t…

- Why not take the last 500 years? China's trade was quite beneficial to its trading partners, Europe's was generally not. Anything less than 100 years, I would consider noise.

- China has 10,000+ years of history (adding documented was a mistake)

- Chinese culture plays too big of a role in decision making to ignore it in my opinion, you may disagree.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#102

Post by IllogicalLogic »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #99
IllogicalLogic wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes. At the end of the day, the roads, high-speed rail, bridges, harbors, etc... the Chinese build can't be removed from the continent even if the individual countries do reneg on debt. This could create the kind of stable environment r…

Roads to transport it faster out of the country, airports that aren't used, Chinese labor funded with domestic debts, lended by the Chinese bank. It's a smart move, but even an elephant can fall when the ground isn't stable ( don't know the appropriate saying in English)

Good observation, yes, a jobs program for the ridiculous number of Chinese engineers being produced that is funded by Chinese banks and paid for with 99 year low interest loans and resources in exchange.

May not be the best model, but sounds better than the "bomb our way to profits" approach we've seen employed elsewhere.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#103

Post by IllogicalLogic »

browsercoin wrote: post #89
raprp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Buy Apple or Google's phones instead. They would never leak customer data for the US government. Oh wait...

if I had to choose between the lesser of the two evils: America vs China I choose America. At least they don't harvest organs out of dissidents for liking Winnie the Pooh. You judge a culture by how they treat the bottom rung.

Different stages in development and the richest country in the world (right now) would obviously win.

We will see what this answer will be in 50-100 years.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#104

Post by IllogicalLogic »

Theodores wrote: post #98
oculusthrift wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no? you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? i don’t think either is good but just because one happens doesn’t mean it’s in our interest to allow another. especially from the governments perspective. it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

From what I remember it was the NSA that hacked Huawei, the problem they had was that there were routers on the market that they could not backdoor as easily as products from Cisco and other Western vendors that were amenable to their requirements. It may not be xenophobia, it might just be plain paranoia, either way there is some public diplomacy going on that is carefully crafted to get people to fear the 'enemy' h…

Trade wars bringing updated versions of Yellow Peril narratives into the 21st century.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#105

Post by squarefoot »

mabbo wrote: post #4

> Don't think about this in terms of just governments tracking you. Consider if you have any work emails containing company secrets in them. Consider if you have 2FA apps installed that you would use to unlock or change your work password. And since it was almost certainly the Chinese Intel/Military that helps Huawei and other companies, you can be sure that whatever information Huawei gets access to doesn't need to…

"Don't buy Huawei hardware. Their incentives to help their customers is far less than their incentives to help their government."

Every company in every country is going to jump if their government says them so. I wouldn't expect any telcos or phone manufacturers to act differently if they were paid or gag ordered to act against their customers.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#106

Post by gwhat »

bepotts wrote: post #27
sametmax wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already forgot PRISM ? No wonder they do stuff like this when the public attention span is so small.

The Snowden revelations caused tech companies to implement strong encryption for consumer facing communications. Apple, Google, and Facebook all offer encryption protocols that now piss off the US government and caused friction between the private and public sectors. People saying "but PRISM" have missed the past five years of US politics. Even Obama was getting mad at US tech.

I always think of Ai Weiwei when considering just what's possible under the Chinese government and system. It's nice that my property won't be demolished and that I won't be kidnapped and beaten by police just because the government doesn't like my criticisms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei

Evan Osnos has some interesting pieces about China and Ai Weiwei:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/evan-osnos/ai-weiwei-at-home-...

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#107

Post by lawnchair_larry »

squarefoot wrote: post #105
mabbo wrote: post #4

> Don't think about this in terms of just governments tracking you. Consider if you have any work emails containing company secrets in them. Consider if you have 2FA apps installed that you would use to unlock or change your work password. And since it was almost certainly the Chinese Intel/Military that helps Huawei and other companies, you can be sure that whatever information Huawei gets access to doesn't need to…

"Don't buy Huawei hardware. Their incentives to help their customers is far less than their incentives to help their government." Every company in every country is going to jump if their government says them so. I wouldn't expect any telcos or phone manufacturers to act differently if they were paid or gag ordered to act against their customers.

We already have proof of several American companies not doing this, and actually suing the government in response.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#108

Post by RodericDay »

oculusthrift wrote: post #93
Theodores wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Precisely. People have short memories and don't seem to see the pot calling the kettle black. I expect better on HN. We have hard evidence that GCHQ/NSA have hacked pretty much everything yet far too often people ignore this to jump on the weakest of speculative hearsay to accuse without hard evidence our Chinese and Russian frie…

no? you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? i don’t think either is good but just because one happens doesn’t mean it’s in our interest to allow another. especially from the governments perspective. it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

lol @ assuming we're all american

classic

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#109

Post by vezycash »

IllogicalLogic wrote: post #101
cbnotfromthere wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes." This is an absurd comparison. A normal comparison of hypotheticals would be Europeans today vs. Chinese investments today. "China has 10,000 years of documented history" That's an even more absurd claim, wow! Actually it's LESS t…

- Why not take the last 500 years? China's trade was quite beneficial to its trading partners, Europe's was generally not. Anything less than 100 years, I would consider noise. - China has 10,000+ years of history (adding documented was a mistake) - Chinese culture plays too big of a role in decision making to ignore it in my opinion, you may disagree.

The only thing i agree with you is this: Chinese building of African projects is CURRENTLY better than American, British, European or Worldbank loans.

Loans are rarely ever used for the intended projects. Only, a minuscule part of the loaned funds are used to start the projects. The rest are split to offshore accounts, buy votes and grab more political power.

Do the loaners know that loan will go to waste? Yes and they hope it does. Why? Neo-colonization & Neo-slavery - illusion of independence.

Direct force is old fashioned and too costly. Subtle economic sabotage and puppetry is much better.

With loans, you can threaten debtor countries to depreciate their currencies. Use your multinationals to evaporate domestic competition, stunting their competitiveness. Extract their raw materials and dictate the price. Place of corrupt individuals in key offices and more.

Is China exploiting African countries? Absolutely. Ghanaian gold mining is basically Chinese.

Yet, conventional loans are like carrots placed in front of a horse, pulling it just before it bites. Think Charlie brown.

Chinese will build roads, bridges, airports, power plants instead of giving loans. Yes they'll give jobs to Chinese engineers but the project will be completed. - on time too.

Sure Chinese milk the cow dry but it will eat and grow fatter, instead of leaner.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#110

Post by gdhbcc »

gwhat wrote: post #106
bepotts wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Snowden revelations caused tech companies to implement strong encryption for consumer facing communications. Apple, Google, and Facebook all offer encryption protocols that now piss off the US government and caused friction between the private and public sectors. People saying "but PRISM" have missed the past five years of US politics. Even Obama was getting mad at US tech.

I always think of Ai Weiwei when considering just what's possible under the Chinese government and system. It's nice that my property won't be demolished and that I won't be kidnapped and beaten by police just because the government doesn't like my criticisms. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei Evan Osnos has some interesting pieces about China and Ai Weiwei: https://www.newyorker.com/news/evan-osnos/ai-weiwei…

Are we just ignoring the black site in Chicago?
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