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China used Huawei to hack network, says report

theaustralian.com.au

91–100 of 127 posts

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#91

It’s amazing to see Americans blindly trust their government and media even after several systemic incident

We've banned you for using multiple accounts to do nationalistic flamewar on HN. That's obviously an abuse of this site.

I understand how frustrating it can be when common criticisms feel one-sided and unfair. But this isn't the way to defend against them. It only makes the threads even worse.

HN's audience is mostly Western, so whatever biases Western populations have are going to be reflected here. If you want to respond to these with a contrary, minority view, that's great, but you need to do it thoughtfully and substantively, instead of breaking the site guidelines by lashing out and flaming.

In my experience, to argue contrarian positions well requires accepting in advance that you're not going to be able to change the bulk of opinion; the forces determining it are beyond the power of an internet forum to change. There are still plenty of people who agree with you or are willing to listen, if you post thoughtful, substantive comments as HN users should. When you know something that other users are unwilling to take in, the temptation to lash out at them becomes hard to resist–but if you succumb to it, you only discredit the truth, and that helps neither you nor them. It just makes everyone double down on what they already believe.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#92
post #80
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One government is actually putting people into fucking camps[1], the other isn't. The scale in which the Chinese Government is bad dwarfs the bad things the US Government may do. No Government is perfect, but there are orders of magnitudes in difference between the badness of the US and that of the Chinese Government. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45812419

The US does have both the highest incarceration rate and actual number of prisoners in the world. And ~22% of those are unsentenced detainees.

Plus they are used for essentially slave labor! Which everybody gets upset about when the Chinese do it, for some reason.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#93
post #7

As revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Instead of a total ban based on how friendly we feel towards certain countries, a trust but verified approach should be adopted. Establish comprehensive, robust and transparent security requirements and regulations for foreign tech firms to comply and allow them to compete on a level field. Review source code and hardware design fo…

> As revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Precisely. People have short memories and don't seem to see the pot calling the kettle black. I expect better on HN. We have hard evidence that GCHQ/NSA have hacked pretty much everything yet far too often people ignore this to jump on the weakest of speculative hearsay to accuse without hard evidence our Chinese and Russian frie…

no? you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? i don’t think either is good but just because one happens doesn’t mean it’s in our interest to allow another. especially from the governments perspective. it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#94
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already forgot PRISM ? No wonder they do stuff like this when the public attention span is so small.

One government is actually putting people into fucking camps[1], the other isn't. The scale in which the Chinese Government is bad dwarfs the bad things the US Government may do. No Government is perfect, but there are orders of magnitudes in difference between the badness of the US and that of the Chinese Government. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45812419

China putting some muslims, that may have been radicalizing, in camps to study Chinese history seems a lot better than the alternatives we employed in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using one; given GCHQ/NSA/whoever already are watching my data, that UK ISPs use Huawei gear - and from who knows where - I don't really care. I can't see what they'd want with my info. If I was working on stuff to be patented or something then maybe ... If I use an Apple device the Chinese or USAmericans could be surveilling me; Samsung/LG, perhaps the Koreans; Sony/Fujitsu maybe the Japanese ... I wouldn't know…

Just to be clear... paranoia is an irrational fear that people are out to get you. If you are actually being spied on by someone (you are) then that word doesn't apply since the fear of that spying is 100% rational.

Yeah, what I was aiming for was anything on the scale from conscientious through to paranoid. If you're "hot" on the issue, rationally or otherwise it could pay off to some extent.

You might say, if it pays off then it's not paranoia -- never cross a road and you can't be run over crossing the road, but I'd still consider it paranoid.

So, yeah, ...

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Precisely. People have short memories and don't seem to see the pot calling the kettle black. I expect better on HN. We have hard evidence that GCHQ/NSA have hacked pretty much everything yet far too often people ignore this to jump on the weakest of speculative hearsay to accuse without hard evidence our Chinese and Russian frie…

no? you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? i don’t think either is good but just because one happens doesn’t mean it’s in our interest to allow another. especially from the governments perspective. it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

> you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it?

The foreign hostile government can't legally do anything to me based on the information it gains. At worst it can blackmail me or abuse access to accounts, at which point I'll have the protection of my government.

The domestic government can do a lot of damage with the information it gains and importantly, I have little to no recourse. If it makes up an excuse to seize my funds, I can't really do anything. If a three-letter agency blackmails me into doing something, who's going to protect me?

They're both bad but a foreign government spying on me is less bad than a domestic one.

A bit off topic but it sounded like you were implying that domestic was less bad. I believe the reverse.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll regret most Chinese investments, there's already a major backlash against the Chinese style "investment." You think China is doing this for Africa's good? China is enslaving them with a signature. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-07-10/china-... http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-08/05/content_853264... NSA, if they haven't bugged them already, they already bought the IT staff with money.…

I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes. At the end of the day, the roads, high-speed rail, bridges, harbors, etc... the Chinese build can't be removed from the continent even if the individual countries do reneg on debt. This could create the kind of stable environment r…

"I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes."

This is an absurd comparison. A normal comparison of hypotheticals would be Europeans today vs. Chinese investments today.

"China has 10,000 years of documented history"

That's an even more absurd claim, wow! Actually it's LESS than half of your claimed period.

"and this is a long game, they don't seem as interested in get rich quick schemes as some other civilizations."

We're not discussing "civilizations" here, but governments. More specifically, the government of a dictatorship.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Precisely. People have short memories and don't seem to see the pot calling the kettle black. I expect better on HN. We have hard evidence that GCHQ/NSA have hacked pretty much everything yet far too often people ignore this to jump on the weakest of speculative hearsay to accuse without hard evidence our Chinese and Russian frie…

no? you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? i don’t think either is good but just because one happens doesn’t mean it’s in our interest to allow another. especially from the governments perspective. it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

From what I remember it was the NSA that hacked Huawei, the problem they had was that there were routers on the market that they could not backdoor as easily as products from Cisco and other Western vendors that were amenable to their requirements.

It may not be xenophobia, it might just be plain paranoia, either way there is some public diplomacy going on that is carefully crafted to get people to fear the 'enemy' hacking everything. Why attribute everything to malice? Ultimately there is good money to be made in selling routers particularly if you can get a municipality to spend proper money on providing connectivity for a city sized area. Huawei might not be a front for the Chinese army, they could be wanting to make profit from a legitimate product. They know full too well that any backdoor specials could compromise their entire business model to lose all of their contracts to put themselves out of business. Why would they run that risk?

Cui bono applies, by making accusations NSA/GCHQ can get them out of the market so that the only option for customers is to buy equipment that is hackable by them.

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll regret most Chinese investments, there's already a major backlash against the Chinese style "investment." You think China is doing this for Africa's good? China is enslaving them with a signature. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-07-10/china-... http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-08/05/content_853264... NSA, if they haven't bugged them already, they already bought the IT staff with money.…

I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes. At the end of the day, the roads, high-speed rail, bridges, harbors, etc... the Chinese build can't be removed from the continent even if the individual countries do reneg on debt. This could create the kind of stable environment r…

Roads to transport it faster out of the country, airports that aren't used, Chinese labor funded with domestic debts, lended by the Chinese bank.

It's a smart move, but even an elephant can fall when the ground isn't stable ( don't know the appropriate saying in English)

Re: China used Huawei to hack network, says report

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As revealed by Snowden, US can compel tech companies to help their intel services too. Precisely. People have short memories and don't seem to see the pot calling the kettle black. I expect better on HN. We have hard evidence that GCHQ/NSA have hacked pretty much everything yet far too often people ignore this to jump on the weakest of speculative hearsay to accuse without hard evidence our Chinese and Russian frie…

no? you really don’t see the difference between a foreign hostile government spying vs the domestic one doing it? i don’t think either is good but just because one happens doesn’t mean it’s in our interest to allow another. especially from the governments perspective. it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

For a significant number of people here the US is a foreign hostile government spying on all our comms.
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