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The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

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Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I have heard from people living there most people seem OK with it.

All over the world there are testosterone poisoned males engaging in as much obnoxious behavior as they can get away with (e.g. riding motorcycles with no mufflers). Particulary coming from the Southern US it is absolutely delightful to be in a place where "rednecks" are completley suppressed.

Please keep this kind of flamebait far away from HN.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#32
post #6

I am right now in Singapore for a visit and personally I don't have the feeling of a very clean city. There are some things that drive me crazy as a european. I went to a hawker with some Singaporeans and we got new disposable chopsticks for every dish. Wich means I ended up with three pairs of chopsticks. All plates were disposable. Either of plastic or styrofoam. Like in the article we didn't clean our trays, a cle…

You don't talk like a European at all.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#33
post #21
post #6

I am right now in Singapore for a visit and personally I don't have the feeling of a very clean city. There are some things that drive me crazy as a european. I went to a hawker with some Singaporeans and we got new disposable chopsticks for every dish. Wich means I ended up with three pairs of chopsticks. All plates were disposable. Either of plastic or styrofoam. Like in the article we didn't clean our trays, a cle…

While I agree there is a lot of plastic used for disposable plastic bags, it is not common to get disposable chopsticks in hawker centers, unless you ask for takeout, which often costs 20-50c extra. Usually all plates/cutlery in hawker centers are reusable plastic. While Singapore cannot be compared to Europe in terms of "save-the-environment" attitude, there recently has been improvement (e.g. some supermarkets star…

I guess especially if one considers the population density the cleanliness is remarkable. From just walking around and experiencing litter volume I see no difference to Munich, despite the missing vandalism and chewing gum. I don't say, that Singapore feels dirty. It just feels normal. Of course feeling is not a scientific value, but for the "super clean Singapore" my expectations were different. Now I can more relate to the super cleaned Singapore as a statement about this city.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#35
post #6

I am right now in Singapore for a visit and personally I don't have the feeling of a very clean city. There are some things that drive me crazy as a european. I went to a hawker with some Singaporeans and we got new disposable chopsticks for every dish. Wich means I ended up with three pairs of chopsticks. All plates were disposable. Either of plastic or styrofoam. Like in the article we didn't clean our trays, a cle…

Is this really true? I can't imagine the amount of plastic waste per person per year is necessarily more than other developed countries. Also I don't remember using disposable plates/bowls when I ordered from the Hawker stalls unless you specifically ask for something to take away - otherwise there's shared reusable plates/bowls that are cleaned.

One thing I definitely know is that the stalls have bans on handing out napkins, which both serves to give the poor a way to make money and reduce the amount napkin waste by pushing the cost to you. I also think it's fairly common for residents to carry their own reusable utensils with them when they go to places like that.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#36
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Singapore for a couple years and I can say that, at least as an expat, you hardly feel restrictions. Of the Singaporeans I know, locals from young to old, they all love it. Like all countries, it has its issues, but consider: - Freedom of religion particularly stands out - It has great and affordable health care - It's safe - Very easy to do business I could list more. Maybe freedom means something differe…

I suspect your sample size was heavily biased to your own social class. Singapore is ruthlessly capitalist, and can be a terrible place to be if you're poor or a foreign worker. One Straits Times (local Pravda) story I recall was about one of those old ladies who cleans up in hawker centres, earning on the order of S$100/month. This is way below a living wage, even in Singapore, and there's no state pension in Singap…

> Many maids are also kept in modern-day slavery, working 365/24/7

In order to get a maid in Singapore you have to pass a test. They are also paid ~500-700/m which is a lot more than they earn in their own countries. For example the minimum monthly income in Cambodia is roughly ~120$. So they earn a lot more in Singapore. Also maids must be given 1 day off per week.

Now every single person I know who has a maid treats them well, a co-worker of mine who is Indian paid for her maid to go back to India for 2 weeks while she went on holiday. This sort of thing is not uncommon.

Now that doesn't mean there are not bad apples in Singapore, I've read stories of maids who have been locked up and not paid, or forced to clean the outside of windows on the 20th story of an apartment block. But if caught, those families get in a lot of trouble. In asia, everything is about face, that doesn't go for just the families, in singapore it's the country too. So they put a lot of effort into ensuring people are safe and protected so it never gets a bad reputation.

> earning on the order of S$100/month

This is rubbish. The entry level for a cleaner is $1000/m, not $100, the salary goes up if you're skilled in operating cleaning machines and such, not just picking up trash. Also the government subsidizes salaries of workers over the age of retirement.

Singapore doesn't have handouts. You don't get handed money because you're old or unemployed. What they do is if you as a company hire someone over a certain age, the government will pay a portion of the salary. This is why Singapore has many workers who are old, and why tax in Singapore is so low.

Housing is also subsidized if you're a low income earner, or little to no family support. You still need to pay rent, but its a fraction of what non-subsidized renters pay.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#37
post #6

I am right now in Singapore for a visit and personally I don't have the feeling of a very clean city. There are some things that drive me crazy as a european. I went to a hawker with some Singaporeans and we got new disposable chopsticks for every dish. Wich means I ended up with three pairs of chopsticks. All plates were disposable. Either of plastic or styrofoam. Like in the article we didn't clean our trays, a cle…

Singapore is not very good at recycling or limiting the products of individuals. On the other hand, they recycle 100% of garbage from building constructions. Which is a pretty big volume of garbage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulau_Semakau

Trash in Singapore is burned and the ash becomes reclaimed land.

https://www.facebook.com/nasdaily/videos/how-singapore-clean...

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#38
I once wandered around Singapore for a few days, and their infrastructure is mostly great, except that I never encountered a single drinking fountain. Not in the airport, train stations, shopping centers, food courts, public buildings...

Does everyone buy/carry water every day, or how do they survive?

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#39
post #6

I am right now in Singapore for a visit and personally I don't have the feeling of a very clean city. There are some things that drive me crazy as a european. I went to a hawker with some Singaporeans and we got new disposable chopsticks for every dish. Wich means I ended up with three pairs of chopsticks. All plates were disposable. Either of plastic or styrofoam. Like in the article we didn't clean our trays, a cle…

Is this really true? I can't imagine the amount of plastic waste per person per year is necessarily more than other developed countries. Also I don't remember using disposable plates/bowls when I ordered from the Hawker stalls unless you specifically ask for something to take away - otherwise there's shared reusable plates/bowls that are cleaned. One thing I definitely know is that the stalls have bans on handing out…

The last few days I am here I try to be more aware and observatory, but I guess that now I am biased this won't work so well. But the first search results for plastic trash in Singapore aren't so optimistic:

"Analysis of the NEA data by Reuters shows that plastic waste per capita has increased nearly 20 percent over the last 15 years. Areport by the local Straits Times newspaper in March said each person in Singaporethrew away an average of 13 bags a day in 2016.05.06.2018" [0] and more plastic bags in [1].

But like some one already mentioned the amount of recycled construction materials is remarkable [2]. As I am not an environmentalist nor a plastic hater I wasn't looking for litter or trash here. But anyways it was enough to make me wonder. Now I am definitely interested in the numbers in comparison to other cities.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-waste/in-singap...

[1] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/monstrous-sc...

[2] https://www.nea.gov.sg/our-services/waste-management/waste-s...

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#40
post #14
post #2

Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

I lived in Singapore for a couple years and I can say that, at least as an expat, you hardly feel restrictions. Of the Singaporeans I know, locals from young to old, they all love it. Like all countries, it has its issues, but consider: - Freedom of religion particularly stands out - It has great and affordable health care - It's safe - Very easy to do business I could list more. Maybe freedom means something differe…

As someone who live in Singapore, yeap, pretty much the same experiences. There's a lot of FUD about Singapore strictness but many are exaggerated.

E.g. If you smoke, you gonna hate Singapore. Because if you get caught smoking in the wrong area, you will be fined. If you throw the butts on the floor, you will be fined if an officer caught you.

Drug is one thing if you cannot live without, you shouldn't come to Singapore.

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