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Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

bbc.com

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Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#121

Post by heroyang »

eropple wrote: post #63
bko wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think arbitrary restrictions on groups that can purchase or lease space in a neighborhood is bad for a free society. I guess people say it depends on what group you're imposing. Now it's Google which you may or may not like, but other groups can be harmed in the future. This is part of the whole NIMBY movement. As long as the group is following laws and zoning restrictions, there should be nothing preventing them f…

Nobody is restricting Google from doing anything. They are expressing--in a way that is part of, and frankly should be expected of being a member of, one of those "free societies" you mention--that Google is unwelcome , and no, nobody is obligated to make you feel welcome . There are cases where not making somebody welcome kinda makes you an asshole, but that does not, frankly, apply to anybody who's got a stock tick…

Next time I see the junky tattooed white garbage that passes for "counter-cultural creative types" I am going to make them feel very unwelcome. Why do these so called artists(heroin addicts) think they can dictate anything to anyone? Tear down the squats and build a parking lot, it would be an improvement.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#122

Post by HillaryBriss »

lallysingh wrote: post #80
keiferski wrote: post #42

I’m honestly kind of surprised at Google’s complete lack of cultural or diplomatic knowledge about Berlin. Kreuzberg is/was the center of artistic culture in the city, and choosing to have a presence there, no matter how small, would clearly be viewed as a corporate American attack on local countercultural values. As another commenter stated, they could have avoided this entire issue by picking somewhere in Mitte or…

Google probably thought "Hey, what's the coolest part of Berlin, where we'd make engineers happy to be in?" and that's about it. "Subtleties"[1] about why it's cool, or what its response to Google being there, probably weren't considered. After the selection had occurred, the procurement machine had been tasked and at that point it takes a lot of resistance to stop that machinery. [1] For some real estate group in Go…

> ...what's the coolest part of Berlin, where we'd make engineers happy to be in?

but i also wonder: does Google consider itself to be one of the "cool kids?" i mean, when it tries to create a new campus like this, does Google think it will be welcomed with open arms?

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#123

Post by pteredactyl »

kadendogthing wrote: post #114
pteredactyl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

Just so you know, your entire comments reacts of bitterness and ignorance. You think their view point on art is stuck in the 20th century, but that's only because you clearly don't understand the type of community you're dealing with. In fact your view point seems extremely myopic and appears to be constrained around your own motivations and hobbies. >But why is tech framed the opposite of art? You are fundamentally…

I'm bitter and ignorant?

I've lived in these communities of 'creatives'. For years. I know its a lot of drugs, idealism and not a lot of action.

Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system. Is that your 'another world is possible'? So maybe I am bitter...

Don't get me wrong, the system is fucked up in many ways. And I agree with your distinction of a grey blandness that permeates the tech culture.

I'm more interested in how all the enlightened 'creatives' can engage with this boring grey techbro community. Because frankly, they're the ones paying for most of their free shit.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#124

Post by oytis »

brainwad wrote: post #106
narrator wrote: post #47

Google people want to work where there is culture because they don't have any. They just consume it with algorithms, extract the value, reprocess it and redistribute it. They pull everything out of context so it looses its broader meaning. For instance, if I google image search for "women in bikinis" I get hundreds of thousands of women in bikinis, but not the broader narrative of their lives and personalities. It is…

You see the simple answer to your query because Google decides what to show based on what users will prefer, and most users just don't give a fuck about "the broader narrative of their lives and personalities".

I would also assume that people interested in broader narrative of women's lives and personalities will not expect to find such narrative by googling for images of women in bikinis.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#125

Post by malvosenior »

kadendogthing wrote: post #114
pteredactyl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

Just so you know, your entire comments reacts of bitterness and ignorance. You think their view point on art is stuck in the 20th century, but that's only because you clearly don't understand the type of community you're dealing with. In fact your view point seems extremely myopic and appears to be constrained around your own motivations and hobbies. >But why is tech framed the opposite of art? You are fundamentally…

A lot of developers who work at places like Google also:

* Develop software on the side for free (art)

* Work on open source software during working hours sponsored by their host company

* Can afford to have families (I notice "vibrant" communities didn't include those with children in them)

> Or cryptocurrency?

Like it or not, Bitcoin is very artistic. Innovative, novel, spurs conversation and strong reactions...

I think it's you who's actually stuck in the 20th century mentality. Cultivating urban hipster hotspots full of "artists" is pure 20th century bohemian chic.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#126

Post by eyeinthepyramid »

eropple wrote: post #91
bko wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the residents there use Google services. They likely want Google to exist, but just not in their back yard

"You use the services that have functionally become required for daily life regardless of whether you like them or not, so it is in some way hand-flappingly hypocritical not to let them step on your community too" is not really the winning argument here.

What Google services are required for daily life? Don't they all have competitors?

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#127

Post by avip »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #100
pteredactyl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

I think your comment is extremely patronizing and arrogant ("To me, it shows haters' level of intellect.") and a "let them eat cake" attitude that to me shows a clear lack of understanding of why people have become so anti-tech over the past 2 decades.

I think we should stop using these empty terms in discussion. They contribute nothing, it’s just ad hominem.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#128

Post by heroyang »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22
jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

These people are artists? It's not art if it's ugly. These creative types are almost always the same, white failures who think they can talk back to their superiors. I think I might buy up some trendy property just so I can throw these disgusting junky whites on to the street.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#129

Post by expertentipp »

sarabande wrote: post #96

One viewpoint from those who didn't want the start-up campus in Berlin, from the Berliner Morgenpost [ https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article215652919/Nach-dem-G... ]: Sehr viel drastischer formulierte es Ulrike Schneider, Aktivistin beim Initiativkreis „Google-Campus & Co verhindern“, die den Konzern beschimpfte: „Google ist und bleibt ein Scheiß-Konzern, der seine Gewinne mit Überwachung, Ausschnüffelei, Zusammen…

Berlin is going nuts in recent times, it's unbearable. There are literally billboards around the city agitating against Facebook and Google (sic!).

Somehow, the same activists with dubious motivations don't mind domestic entities like infamous credit rating agency or the debt collection agency collecting the public media fee. The public media debt collection agency has the most complete database of who lives where and with whom in the whole country, probably the most comprehensive database on domestic households that exists in the world, certainly in the EU. What about it, fraudulent privacy zealots?

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#130

Post by detaro »

expertentipp wrote: post #129
sarabande wrote: post #96

One viewpoint from those who didn't want the start-up campus in Berlin, from the Berliner Morgenpost [ https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article215652919/Nach-dem-G... ]: Sehr viel drastischer formulierte es Ulrike Schneider, Aktivistin beim Initiativkreis „Google-Campus & Co verhindern“, die den Konzern beschimpfte: „Google ist und bleibt ein Scheiß-Konzern, der seine Gewinne mit Überwachung, Ausschnüffelei, Zusammen…

Berlin is going nuts in recent times, it's unbearable. There are literally billboards around the city agitating against Facebook and Google (sic!). Somehow, the same activists with dubious motivations don't mind domestic entities like infamous credit rating agency or the debt collection agency collecting the public media fee. The public media debt collection agency has the most complete database of who lives where an…

> the same activists with dubious motivations don't mind domestic entities

[citation needed]. The examples you mention are widely disliked and fought too. + of course conflating privacy activists and those protesting Google here likely is not very accurate.

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