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Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

bbc.com

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Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#41

Post by hknd »

jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

Yes, this is so sad. I know so many start-up founders in London who spend nearly every day at the campus in London.

It's a free workspace with a lot of benefits, like wifi, cheap snacks/drinks and meeting other founders for kx.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#42

Post by keiferski »

I’m honestly kind of surprised at Google’s complete lack of cultural or diplomatic knowledge about Berlin. Kreuzberg is/was the center of artistic culture in the city, and choosing to have a presence there, no matter how small, would clearly be viewed as a corporate American attack on local countercultural values. As another commenter stated, they could have avoided this entire issue by picking somewhere in Mitte or a western suburb.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#43

Post by expathacker »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #28
hocuspocus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it NIMBYism. - Most residents in Berlin (and in Germany for that matter) rent their apartments. - There's a fairly good supply of newly built homes. It's still not enough to absorb the population growth, but it's much better than in many German cities. People complain because they can see the downside of this influx of tech workers very clearly, while the benefits aren't obvious, at least not yet. Ren…

Why can't local government use these techies' income tax money to pay for schools and development? This smells like classic blameshifting.

If you've ever been to the San Francisco Bay Area, you'll find that this never happens. Quite the opposite in some cases, the influx of thousands of upper middle-class young techies has priced out families (and teachers). This lowers enrollment, which results in school closures. Circularly, school closures reduces educational funding to the detriment of schools while increasing distance for children to travel to schools, encouraging more families to move away.

Logically you would think as these rich 20-somethings become rich 30-somethings they will start having children, but after 10 years they cannot afford SF either, so they also move away.

Sure, forcing out Google doesn't solve the problem, but it sends a very clear message: Profits are not more important than livable communities.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#44

Post by badpun »

dao- wrote: post #27
jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

> There may still be very valid reasons to protest Google in Berlin, but I wonder if the people objecting understood the distinction: Very much so. Been to a panel discussion organized by them. The fear was that the incubator would accelerate gentrification. Doesn't matter whether the pay checks come from Google at the end of the day.

> The fear was that the incubator would accelerate gentrification.

Sort of understood, given that Germans are a nation of life-long renters (as opposed to home-owners). Gentrification is generally great for the owner and terrible for the renter.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#45

Post by meguest »

doombolt wrote: post #7
meguest wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain and Italy currently have weakened economies caused by large unemployment and government debt. Italy in particular is at risk of defaulting on its debts (which are 131% of GDP compared to 87.7% for the U.K and 64.1% in Germany as of 2017) and the ECB and other lenders are going to be reluctant to lend to them. This is turn puts the banks and all kinds of public services at risk.

I don't understand why it will be harder to attract software developers to Italy versus Poland. Weather and environment are much nicer and if this job ends you just move elsewhere. I would easily move to a cheap locale even if tech scene there is not abundant. I'd not move to London or Switzerland since you will always be 2nd class citizen compared to e.g. bankers. Which is just non issue in southern europe. Weak eco…

The Italian government are in a debt crisis not too different from the Greek government debt crisis of 2007/2008.

Italy currently has a slow growing economy and needs a large number of younger economic migrants to increase Italy's competitiveness and pay taxes.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#46

Post by woodpanel »

camillomiller wrote: post #39
woodpanel wrote: post #2

Rightly so. Berlin has an amazing start up scene, certainly unique for and unrivaled in Germany. That being said, Berlin hosts a lot of NIMBYism. Particularly by people who gentrified the city in the first place and immediately turned to become fierce gentrification enemies. Essentially locking in their gains.

This makes no sense. Berlin is a rent city, not a ownership one. So what’s the incredible gain to lock?

Please see my other comments.

But building on the idea, that because Germany/Berlin being a tenant place there are no gains to lock in - that logic would then conclude that there can't be gentrification at all. Which is of course nonsensical.

Gentrificators don't need to be property owners, in fact gentrification theory explicitly states the opposite: that it's usually new tenants that change poor/working-class neighborhoods and spark the gentrification process. Those tenants are so called "pioneers", usually high educated, creative class, affluent and thus able to buy property even after the gentrification process has started.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#47

Post by narrator »

Google people want to work where there is culture because they don't have any. They just consume it with algorithms, extract the value, reprocess it and redistribute it. They pull everything out of context so it looses its broader meaning.

For instance, if I google image search for "women in bikinis" I get hundreds of thousands of women in bikinis, but not the broader narrative of their lives and personalities. It is completely decontextualized and drops all the other dimensions of the context in which these photos were taken.

In the same way, Google employees lack context because everything is a component, they moved from somewhere else and have been assimilated into the great corporate standardization. They crave things with context, but when they try and coexist with it, their enormous economic superiority draws the interest of the whole world to extract from that environment that which promotes their ability to decontextualize and conform the world around them and the decontextualization whirlwind grows around them.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#48

Post by icebraining »

doombolt wrote: post #4

Why not build in e.g. Leipzig or other beautiful but jobs-starved city? Come to think of it, why no campuses in Italy or Spain? Those countries have kinda lowish expenses, good weather and people will pay a premium to be able to move there. Instead everybody is opening in London and Switzerland which are overpriced and kinda meh.

According to some reports, they're planning a large campus (500 jobs) in Lisbon, Portugal.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#49

Post by icebraining »

hummel wrote: post #13
doombolt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all places in Spain Madrid is probably the "meh"est. Not wanting to be snark but the selection process seems strange indeed.

It's the door to South America and more than 572 million potential customers.

I think the question was about the city, not the country.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#50

Post by ff10 »

keiferski wrote: post #42

I’m honestly kind of surprised at Google’s complete lack of cultural or diplomatic knowledge about Berlin. Kreuzberg is/was the center of artistic culture in the city, and choosing to have a presence there, no matter how small, would clearly be viewed as a corporate American attack on local countercultural values. As another commenter stated, they could have avoided this entire issue by picking somewhere in Mitte or…

... or Adlershof for that matter.
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