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Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

bbc.com

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Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#91

Post by eropple »

bko wrote: post #86
mehrdadn wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying you do [something I don't like] and I don't want you to do [thing I don't like] in my neighborhood is exactly NIMBY No, that's most definitely not NIMBY. NIMBY means you support something when it's farther away but oppose it happening close to you. It stands for "not in my backyard", not "not in any backyard".

Presumably the residents there use Google services. They likely want Google to exist, but just not in their back yard

"You use the services that have functionally become required for daily life regardless of whether you like them or not, so it is in some way hand-flappingly hypocritical not to let them step on your community too" is not really the winning argument here.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#92

Post by C1sc0cat »

badpun wrote: post #44
dao- wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There may still be very valid reasons to protest Google in Berlin, but I wonder if the people objecting understood the distinction: Very much so. Been to a panel discussion organized by them. The fear was that the incubator would accelerate gentrification. Doesn't matter whether the pay checks come from Google at the end of the day.

> The fear was that the incubator would accelerate gentrification. Sort of understood, given that Germans are a nation of life-long renters (as opposed to home-owners). Gentrification is generally great for the owner and terrible for the renter.

well you would have thought that after a while Germans should have realised that renting (long term is a mugs game). - Just entrenches the power of the elites.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#93

Post by chobeat »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #84
eropple wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is restricting Google from doing anything. They are expressing--in a way that is part of, and frankly should be expected of being a member of, one of those "free societies" you mention--that Google is unwelcome , and no, nobody is obligated to make you feel welcome . There are cases where not making somebody welcome kinda makes you an asshole, but that does not, frankly, apply to anybody who's got a stock tick…

Well your not welcome (google in this case) but that doesn't give you the right to deny others who might want to move to berlin and work for google - that sound s like UKip policy in the uk. And what does having a stock ticker matter presumably you took advantage of the German miracle and the rise of VW and others.

This would go against the interests of the locals, that, frankly, in a community should come before the interests of some programmer that would find a job somewhere else.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#94

Post by woodpanel »

keiferski wrote: post #87
woodpanel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that this activism is often made up of people who are highly educated, affluent (because of parents or soon-to-be paying off high-education) who weren't born in Berlin themselves – in other words: By gentrificators.

Berlin has been a center of left-wing activism since at least the 70's.

Yes, by people who moved there from other areas of Germany (for example to elude the draft). The "swabian invasion" many Berliners face is not a recent thing.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#95

Post by seanhunter »

jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

The tech ecosystem in Berlin is pretty diverse. It doesn't need an SV firm to come in to do that or to give access to facilities and other resources.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#96

Post by sarabande »

One viewpoint from those who didn't want the start-up campus in Berlin, from the Berliner Morgenpost [https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article215652919/Nach-dem-G...]:

    Sehr viel drastischer formulierte es Ulrike Schneider, Aktivistin beim Initiativkreis „Google-Campus & Co verhindern“, die den Konzern beschimpfte: „Google ist und bleibt ein Scheiß-Konzern, der seine Gewinne mit Überwachung, Ausschnüffelei, Zusammenarbeit mit Militär und Geheimdiensten sowie Steuertricks macht.“
> Ulrike Schneider, an activist at the initiative group "Stop Google-Campus & Co", criticized the company even more drastically: "Google is and will always be a shit company, that makes its profit through monitoring, snooping, working with the military and secret services, and tax [evasion] tricks."

I'm sure most local residents mostly care about rent prices going up in that area, though, rather than a specific anti-Google sentiment. They probably don't want it to be gentrified as another district, similar to what happened/is happening to Prenzlauer Berg.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#97

Post by mehrdadn »

bko wrote: post #86
mehrdadn wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying you do [something I don't like] and I don't want you to do [thing I don't like] in my neighborhood is exactly NIMBY No, that's most definitely not NIMBY. NIMBY means you support something when it's farther away but oppose it happening close to you. It stands for "not in my backyard", not "not in any backyard".

Presumably the residents there use Google services. They likely want Google to exist, but just not in their back yard

It's not about whether "they want Google to exist", that's just reducing the whole thing to absurdity. It's not about mere existence. It's about whether they're fine with the approaches taken by the company and whether they're suddenly opposing it when it directly affects them.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#98

Post by throwaway93u9 »

narrator wrote: post #47

Google people want to work where there is culture because they don't have any. They just consume it with algorithms, extract the value, reprocess it and redistribute it. They pull everything out of context so it looses its broader meaning. For instance, if I google image search for "women in bikinis" I get hundreds of thousands of women in bikinis, but not the broader narrative of their lives and personalities. It is…

You forgot to give the entire context for your comment, which completely decontextualizes it and drops all other dimensions in which this comment was taken. ;-)

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#99

Post by detaro »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #84
eropple wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is restricting Google from doing anything. They are expressing--in a way that is part of, and frankly should be expected of being a member of, one of those "free societies" you mention--that Google is unwelcome , and no, nobody is obligated to make you feel welcome . There are cases where not making somebody welcome kinda makes you an asshole, but that does not, frankly, apply to anybody who's got a stock tick…

Well your not welcome (google in this case) but that doesn't give you the right to deny others who might want to move to berlin and work for google - that sound s like UKip policy in the uk. And what does having a stock ticker matter presumably you took advantage of the German miracle and the rise of VW and others.

They aren't denying Google and it's employees the right to move to Berlin, there's tons of areas in Berlin for tech companies to be, some tolerant of them, some actively trying to get more companies to move in. (and of course Google legally would have been free to move in despite the protests, but choose not to). That's needlessly over-the-top rhetoric for a localized protest.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#100

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

pteredactyl wrote: post #89
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

I think your comment is extremely patronizing and arrogant ("To me, it shows haters' level of intellect.") and a "let them eat cake" attitude that to me shows a clear lack of understanding of why people have become so anti-tech over the past 2 decades.
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