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Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

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Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#341

Post by andy_ppp »

scoon1329 wrote: post #275
denzil_correa wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m tempted to call hypocrisy here.. You can call it hypocrisy but it doesn't affect the validity of Tim Cook's argument [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

It may not affect the validity of the argument, but it may suggest something about the motivations of the person making the argument. Each person's idea of where something sits on the spectrum of right and wrong differs. If someone is being hypocritical, it can lead people to question the motive behind the words.

This is considerably better than the way I put it! Thanks!

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#342

Post by 52-6F-62 »

da_chicken wrote: post #308
burtonator wrote: post #258

I'd like to think I'm one of the good guys here. I was one of the inventors of RSS and Atom and worked to push open content and social media. I started a social data search platform named Datastreamer ( http://www.datastreamer.io/ ) which is basically a petabyte-scale content indexing engine. We provide API feeds to search engines and social media analytics companies needing bulk data but don't want to have to build…

And people wonder why I've argued that, at some point, IT needs to be a certified and regulated profession like lawyers, doctors, engineers, nurses, pilots, accountants, electricians, plumbers, teachers, etc. If the future is going to be built using software and data, it's probably going to be essential that the general public have some agency -- public or private -- to safeguard the public interest. It takes years o…

I generally like the idea— it's probably a sign of maturity.

I'd add that it would be nice to be able to operate outside of certain fields and certain types of operations without that level of certification.

For instance, freelance web devs, small business software employees, etc who aren't dealing in things like personal or trivial data could continue operation. For example: you don't need to be a doctor to be certified in first aid, or even administer first aid—but you likely wouldn't attempt an invasive, life-threatening surgery.

I'd also like to see—if that kind of regulation were to pass—the inclusion of some kind of grandfather clause that would include the ability to test without formal education.

The reason being there are very many highly capable developers/engineers in the field who don't possess the exact formal background—and in many cases came from other formal backgrounds.

I'd definitely hear arguments for not requiring education at any time, but to keep it on par with the other professions you listed I'll leave it as is.

This might not be the thread for a larger discussion on this—because it seems like it would be a larger discussion. An interesting one, though...

Implementation seems like it would be a challenge, but then again I don't know the stories behind who more modern professions like electricians were regulated. I imagine that field grew much more slowly.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#343

Post by mcbits »

booleandilemma wrote: post #129
ganzuul wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dubious proposition. Many programmers work to solve political problems through technological means. TOR is an example of this.

You can’t solve a political problem through technological means, you can only provide workarounds. Geeky, awkward workarounds. TOR is an example of this.

Problem: Buying something with a credit card exposes the customer to unauthorized charges.

Weak political solution: Thou shalt not make unauthorized charges to other people's credit cards.

Technical solution: Replace the whole concept of credit card numbers with a secure payment authorization flow.

Credit cards: Meh. That sounds hard.

[20 years later...]

Credit cards: Check this out! We offer a secure payment authorization flow! And your credit card numbers still work like they always did!

[Someday...]

Stronger (but late) political solution: Thou shalt provide a secure payment authorization flow instead of credit card numbers.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#344

Post by macintux »

Tehnix wrote: post #329
macintux wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite the same thing, because with that setting apps can run in the background and continue to track your location. Usually you want this (e.g., Waze), but not always (e.g., Uber).

No. That would quite literally be the “Always” setting... For example, for Messenger to share live location, it needs location sharing to be always, and not just “While using”. With while using though, you are still able to share a pin point of you current location.

I don't allow anything Facebook-owned to access my location, so I can't speak to Messenger, but perhaps FB simply doesn't want you to lose location sharing if iOS has to kill Messenger while running in the background.

Always: an app can always access your location

While using: an app can access your location until explicitly terminated by the user or the OS due to resource constraints

Never: self-evident

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#345

Post by johnsea »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #278
johnsea wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to kill... but some compromises you'll have to do. Librem and (partly) Sailfish/Jolla give you much more control but they are by far not as polished/broad as iPhones or Androids. Here a link, maybe the Sailfish 3 version will get a bit more traction? https://together.jolla.com/question/191235/official-event-sa...

Can I buy a Sailfish phone ready to go that works on Verizon yet? The biggest thing about this niche OSes is you always have to flash them on a limited set of compatible hardware yourself, and they generally only work on GSM carriers.

I'm not sure, but from a https://together.jolla.com/questions/ search I suppose it doesn't work on Verizon. Maybe ask on together?

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#346

Post by Kaveren »

gaius wrote: post #244
zaidf wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contrast in the case of Apple you have a customer relationship with the company that sold you the device and they have an incentive to keep you as a customer without having a need to extract as much advertisement revenue as they can. Do you acknowledge this comes at a huge cost? Apple has a fraction of the marketshare as Android in countries like India. Apple's iPhone prices out billions of people. Android-based p…

billions of people would not have smartphones. But what’s the downside?

It seems like a privileged position to argue that there's no downside to people having smartphones. Many people are unable to regularly access decent laptops or desktops. Internet access is essential.

The Internet lets you communicate with friends and family, access a massive trove of knowledge quickly (freeing up education), discuss current events, and all manner of other things.

Even personally as a well to do American, have saved many, many thousands of dollars by acquiring learning resources online.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#347

Post by blihp »

da_chicken wrote: post #308
burtonator wrote: post #258

I'd like to think I'm one of the good guys here. I was one of the inventors of RSS and Atom and worked to push open content and social media. I started a social data search platform named Datastreamer ( http://www.datastreamer.io/ ) which is basically a petabyte-scale content indexing engine. We provide API feeds to search engines and social media analytics companies needing bulk data but don't want to have to build…

And people wonder why I've argued that, at some point, IT needs to be a certified and regulated profession like lawyers, doctors, engineers, nurses, pilots, accountants, electricians, plumbers, teachers, etc. If the future is going to be built using software and data, it's probably going to be essential that the general public have some agency -- public or private -- to safeguard the public interest. It takes years o…

That won't help even a little bit in this case. That's like trying place the responsibility to reduce the amount of garbage generated on those who drive the garbage trucks. The decision to engage in the bad behavior usually doesn't come from IT staff or engineers, it comes from management. Hold the leaders of these organizations responsible and you'll see the problem fixed real quick.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#348

Post by macintux »

Tehnix wrote: post #329
macintux wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite the same thing, because with that setting apps can run in the background and continue to track your location. Usually you want this (e.g., Waze), but not always (e.g., Uber).

No. That would quite literally be the “Always” setting... For example, for Messenger to share live location, it needs location sharing to be always, and not just “While using”. With while using though, you are still able to share a pin point of you current location.

Now that I've looked for Apple's document on the matter I'm more confused. I'd need some examples of what it means by "one of its features".

"Allows access to Location Services only when the app or one of its features is visible on screen. If an app is set to While Using the App, you might see your status bar turn blue with a message that an app is actively using your location."

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207092

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#349

Post by Fnoord »

fetbaffe wrote: post #215
Ensorceled wrote: post #194

The only problem is that Apple is the Mercedes of mobile devices. We really need a Honda and Kia version, a more affordable device that doesn’t track you. Apple is never going to give up their premium position.

Sad that Apple stopped making iPhone SE, still expensive compared to other brands, but the cheapest to jump on the Apple bandwagon.

Not to mention it has a good fit in the (small) hand.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#350

Post by lern_too_spel »

spery wrote: post #323
zmmmmm wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just buy an Android device and opt out of all the tracking? People behave as if this is impossible, but the options are all right there in the settings. There are a few places you lose some features but not super significant ones, and mostly those are because the tracking is intrinsically involved in the functions of the app.

This is farm from the solution you present it to be. Opt out of google maps history and try the maps search for few days. Then turn it on again and compare the results. I've even had 'Saved Places' not render without search history being enabled. My next phone will sadly be an IPhone. Not because I love apple(I don't), but just because I'm quitting google.

Search for places requires knowing your current location to give you the most relevant results. Google would have the same information if you used Google Maps on iPhone.

The difference is that on Android, it is possible to set a default maps app that is entirely local, which means that Android wins on privacy for location tracking. (This is before even considering that AGPS location data collection is mandatory on iOS and merely opt in on Android.)

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