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How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

christiandailyjournal.com

131–140 of 166 posts

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#131

As a conservative, I've never really paid any attention to Hillsong stuff. What I did hear of typical pentecostal music struck me as pretty shallow and.....commercial. Admittedly as an ignoramus, I do wonder how they get around tax exemption while they rake this all in. I know you can't brush everyone with the same stroke, but it feels reminiscent of those mega-pastors that fly around in their private jets to shake h…

> What I did hear of typical pentecostal music struck me as pretty shallow and.....commercial

I noted this past sunday that one of the songs had "I" statements for the vast majority of lines. Funny that a song which is intended to speak to God's position (ie, worthy of worship) was so focused on self. Not surprising from one of the most selfish societies to ever have existed.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#132

Hillsong NYC volunteer software engineer here. We’re passionate about using our skills to serve the local community in addition to our church. Shoot me an email if you’re in the area and would like to chat about helping local nonprofits with code. e at emersonhall dot com

Your church is also passionate about alienating its members from non-believers, and oppressing LGBT folk. All while ignoring the actual message of your deity. Keep you help to yourself buddy.

Sources to what you're speaking of (especially ones pointing at Hillsong) would be useful to improve this discourse.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#133
post #51

Hillsong music is simple, catchy, and easy to play. If a teenager can pick up a guitar and lead their friends to sing along with easy lyrics, it'll be a hit. A satirical take on this is How to Write a Worship Song (In 5 Minutes or Less). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls Translations of Hillsong music into other languages are also popular. 約書亞樂團 Joshuaband translate some songs into Chinese, and it was a hug…

Couple of points on this.. it's interesting how ideological context perculates (and reverse perculate) through a movement. (A) Catholic (an example, for contrast) music tends to be institutional: choirs, organs... Formal. You don't just play the organ for fun, it's a scheduled, authorized activity. It's not something that spreads or something that exists outside of its preallocated box. (B) Hillsong's kind of music i…

In Germany we have Albert Frey, a Catholic singer and songwriter. I didn't know for years that he was Catholic since he is a major source of worship songs in evangelical churches and beyond.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

Tend to agree. Most Christian music sounds very samey to me and simply doesn't stir my soul . I realise this is a very personal perspective, but I find a lot of "secular" music better for worship: Hendrix, Led Zep, Guns 'N' Roses, Soundgarden, Hybrid, She, Pendulum, and of course plenty of orchestral and ensemble music from earlier eras. This stuff stirs my soul. I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well…

you're right and it tends to become more and more like that. On the other hand they are so simple you can pretty much pick up any song after the first couple of lines.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#135

I've been playing in worship groups for +20 years now and I'm currently leading the youth band in a very small church and here are two things that I've been noting recently: Hillsong's music and most "mainstream" music that come from white english-spoken megachurches have lyrics that talk about "grace","love" and "God accepting you as you are". While the themes on worship music coming from South America (and I think…

There's another interesting language difference to look at, both within the history of Western worship, and in various countries. Western worship has become heavily "I/Me" based, where historically it was more "Us/We" based. To the point it's starting to drive me crazy. Worship is becoming almost entirely selfish. A group of individuals having an individual experience, instead of a group of people having a collective…

I'm reminded of two things. First, Knuth's article "On the Complexity of Songs", which features K. C. and the Sunshine band's "That's the way..." (Knuth, btw, is a Christian). Second, many years ago, a music minister and I were goofing around with worship songs set to disco music. I did, "That's the way, uh huh, huh huh, I praise Him, uh huh, uh huh..." This was, partly, to express my discontent with I-focused worship and banal lyrics. He responded with an amazing, impromptu version of the Bee Gee's "Staying Alive" with the lyrics "He is alive! He is alive!".

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#136

I've been playing in worship groups for +20 years now and I'm currently leading the youth band in a very small church and here are two things that I've been noting recently: Hillsong's music and most "mainstream" music that come from white english-spoken megachurches have lyrics that talk about "grace","love" and "God accepting you as you are". While the themes on worship music coming from South America (and I think…

The difference in emphasis you noticed (grace, love, and acceptance vs. joy, freedom, and deliverance) has deep historical roots that go back much further than colonial history. As an exercise, even the apostles -- and the prophets before them -- can be read in terms of which side of this dichotomy they preferred in their rhetoric. If you read the bible every year and choose a list of themes/topics to focus on, this…

The Book "Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes" reveals how cultural biases influence how we interpret/misinterpret the Bible. One of the examples given was the difference between our (western) individualistic culture and the collectivist culture which the Bible was written.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#137

I've been playing in worship groups for +20 years now and I'm currently leading the youth band in a very small church and here are two things that I've been noting recently: Hillsong's music and most "mainstream" music that come from white english-spoken megachurches have lyrics that talk about "grace","love" and "God accepting you as you are". While the themes on worship music coming from South America (and I think…

> The other thing is that even while Hillsong's and similar music is very shallow and simplistic, it is becoming increasingly difficult to perform with simple, cheap instruments. So small and poor bands like ours lose appeal against the ones in megachurches with lots of instruments, talent-pool and technology.

Generally a good song can hold up when performed on a single piano or acoustic guitar, and obviously with a singer[1]. The problem here is not you: it's the songs.

Assuming you're half competent musicians, which you sound like you are, they don't sound good when you play them, not because your instruments are cheap and your band is small, but because they don't hold up as songs. They're not strong enough to carry themselves with a simple arrangement. I suspect it's not a conscious effort but what Hillsong (and others) are doing is using an impressive production to disguise weak songs.

And even if in some cases I'm wrong, songs that require a massive production aren't necessarily that helpful to the church at large. For smaller churches, how is it useful to have songs that require 10 musicians to pull off to even a borderline acceptable standard?

Your comment about rock-punk attitude is bang on. Hillsong is the overblown self-indulgent rock music of the early-mid 1970s (I mean, think how long some of their songs go on nowadays): it is time, and over-time, for the punks to take over.

I think there's a real opportunity here for strong songwriting and simplified arrangements to win through and displace the turgid mega-productions we're being submitted to with something - at the risk of being accused of rank hipsterism - a little more authentic.

Just think how many great bands over the years have been three, four, or five pieces with no massive productions (until, perhaps, later on): The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream, Blondie, The Police, The Pretenders, The Sex Pistols, The Clash, Manic Street Preachers, Cranberries, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Garbage, U2 (yeah, I know, everybody loves to hate Bono), Metallica, AC/DC, GnR, REM, Radiohead, Paramore, and the list goes on - even Fleetwood Mac were pretty basic to start off with. I'd rather listen to any of these (and many more) than Hillsong or similar.

You can do a heck of a lot with an acoustic (or even electric) guitar or two, some percussion, and a couple of voices. If you can add a bass in there, more power to you.

[1] There are, obviously, exceptions. Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody doesn't really work as anything other than a big production. Neither does Beethoven's Ode To Joy. The interesting thing about Ode To Joy though is that, if you strip away the massive production, the tune is kind of crappy - it doesn't hold up on its own.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#138

As a conservative, I've never really paid any attention to Hillsong stuff. What I did hear of typical pentecostal music struck me as pretty shallow and.....commercial. Admittedly as an ignoramus, I do wonder how they get around tax exemption while they rake this all in. I know you can't brush everyone with the same stroke, but it feels reminiscent of those mega-pastors that fly around in their private jets to shake h…

To explain my username, I'm an organist. I'm not interested in going to a service that's nothing but a rock concert, but we've successfully incorporated some of these songs (Shout to the Lord comes to mind) successfully into a service that also includes standard liturgy, and I definitely enjoy them in that context. I'm not saying the genre isn't full of empty songs, but there are a few with merit in the lyrics.

I'm a former organist myself, went through this some years ago before I got out of the business.

I was always disappointed that there wasn't more efforts like Marty Haugen's Holden Evening Prayer, which really does a good job of keeping the liturgical structure but updating it to use some new instruments and be applicable in some new ways.

I was always supportive of adding new and different music, in fact I spearheaded it in a lot of cases, but the further along we went the more the new music just seemed repetitive and empty. (I can't imagine what it is now, about 9 years since I last played a service.)

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing. How have I never seen that before? Made me laugh primarily because it resonates quite strongly for me (although I suspect not for everyone). There are Christian artists I've really enjoyed. Iona spring immediately to mind, although I haven't listened to them regularly in years, but the relevant points are: 1) Their lyrics tend to have more substance to them. 2) Even if the style isn't your cup of tea, there'…

> Switchfoot You would probably also appreciate Jon Foreman's (Switchfoot founder) solo work too.

Thanks: I'll definitely check it out.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#140
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the year 2018, Christian theology is almost infinitely diverse, but it wasn't always so. That diversity is very modern. For the vast majority of Christian history, the sacramental role of music in Christianity was essentially a universal given. It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation that anyone even considered divorcing music from sacramental theology and it wasn't until the mid-20th century that the idea of c…

> To speak authoritatively of "Christian theology" in the context of music in any meaningful sense, a "vote" needs to be given to every generation of Christians, not just the current one. Definitely, but we also need to consider that before the industrial revolution, Christians were limited in their options (most folks were very poor by modern standards, there isn't much diversity in music in general, and there is a…

> There is such a thing as 'progress', after all.

That's a bold claim that too many people accept without question and about which too few actually consider the implications.

Progress is improvement. It's moving forward. The notion requires accepting the idea that you were at one point behind where you are now or not as developed/complete/refined. That's fine if you are talking about technology or some other mundane topic, but to make that claim in the context of Christianity - a religion ENTIRELY dependent upon the veracity and completeness of the stories and traditions it is based upon - is to call into question the entire faith.

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