How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry • Hacker News Board

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#91

Post by JshWright » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

camelNotation wrote: post #76

JshWright wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the fact that the Protestant Reformation encompasses roughly a quarter of the lifespan of the Christian church, I'm not sure it's fair to call it "exclusively modern".

Timespan is not as important as the shared perspective that defines modern religious thought, but even if it were, 25% is still far from a majority and, at least for most of that timeframe, Protestants were a small minority of Christians in the world (and they still are a minority).

I never claimed it was a "majority". My point is that the history of the Church is complicated, and Protestantism (representing roughly of a quarter of the catholic Church in terms of both time and people). Anything that encompasses 25-35% of a whole is significant enough to not be written off as "exclusively" anything.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#92

Post by gscott » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

pluma wrote: post #8

drewmol wrote: post #6

If you read anxiously through the whole article like I did thinking: "Yeah I get it but what are the numbers?" From 2015 article: "The Hillsong empire they founded (she, too, is a senior pastor) pulled in tax-free revenues of nearly $80 million in Australia last year and more than $100 million internationally." https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/inside-the-hillsong-churchs...

Wait, tax-free? Surely this is a for-profit business, not a "church".

Salary and other things are not tax free. Eventually the funds will be spent and taxed multiple times.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#93

Post by giancarlostoro » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

whatthesmack wrote: post #18

rezeroed wrote: post #9

My sister's involved with Hillsong. A scam if ever I saw one. I no longer have anything to do with her.

Would you mind elaborating? I personally enjoy the music Hillsong puts out, but am always curious about the inner workings of an organization such as theirs.

They share a bit of commonalities with IHOP. I think they might mean their "internship" program is a scam. Look into how IHOP is a cult / scams young people. Its a lot of fluff. My cousin too joined one of the internships but for her own reasons and thankfully she knew better so by the time she got out she just knew we were right about them, except she knew the whole enchilada.

In the case of IHOP they have sexualized lyrics which they front as worship music by over emphasizing being the Bride of Christ. This leads sexually frustrated / confused (in a Christian viewpoint / sense) youths even more confused about Jesus and their relationship with Him. Its a lot to take all at once so research it and pray about it and take your time. I just personally avoid IHOP / Hillsong for multiple reasons. The other thing to remember is they are not all at fault some are just there genuinely or misled into being there.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#94

Post by jenebzix » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:30 PM UTC

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #88

Hillsong NYC volunteer software engineer here. We’re passionate about using our skills to serve the local community in addition to our church. Shoot me an email if you’re in the area and would like to chat about helping local nonprofits with code. e at emersonhall dot com

Your church is also passionate about alienating its members from non-believers, and oppressing LGBT folk. All while ignoring the actual message of your deity. Keep you help to yourself buddy.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#95

Post by packetslave » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

thrmsforbfast wrote: post #60

netcan wrote: post #45

I went to a few Hillsong events about 10 years ago, when the church was becoming very obvious cultural influence Australia-wide. There is a lot that's very entrepreneurial about this church. They also started Gloria Jean's, a big, international Starbucks competitor. Like the music stuff, this had to do with youth culture and creating social aspects to the movement. In Australia a lot of people called the denomination…

> just because they've been "making things happen". Actually, my biggest fear about Christianity in the USA today is that it's NOT "making things happen" Or, perhaps more accurately, the things that it's making happen are businesses. The mainline congregations and Catholics of the 19th and early-mid 20th centuries made serious contributions to: 1. Education. In addition to the obvious middle and high schools, they st…

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you".

If you're going to reach the kids and young adults of the 21st century, your church can't act like it's still the 19th.

If all you care about is your existing congregation of late-stage adults and senior citizens, then perhaps organ music and "the unadulterated truth" are just fine. But it means your church has an expiration date.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#96

Post by bartread » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

bartread wrote: post #86

expathacker wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that all religious tax-dodges are scams if you're an atheist. My businesses and lack of faith don't get a free-ride, but I have to subsidize that of somebody else's? By this logic, it's a cool business hack to run a megachurch and buy your own 737 without paying taxes, not a scam?

You aren't really subsidising it, unless you're making the argument that if organisations - such as Hillsong - paid taxes the overall tax rate would be lowered for all? Ideally this might be true but the cynic in me suggests it wouldn't... well, that and the fact that their income within a given country is relatively insignificant as compared to GDP within that country. Moreover: 1) Hillsong runs substantially on don…

> I don't know much about the lifestyles of their senior employees/leaders - maybe it's a televangelist-style Gulfstream-and-champagne-fest, maybe not.

Sadly, if this article is accurate, it may be closer to the above than I'd thought: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/taxpayers-support-lavish-h...

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#97

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

gtycomb wrote: post #50

wbl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a Christian, but I feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s is far more divine sounding then someone with a guitar as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs . Sadly my faith tradition is stuck with Debbie Freedman.

The Bach Cantata here is marvelously moving, so let me put in my $0.02. When Bach wrote his music, he was also at the cutting edge of the technology of his age. The pipe organs were great accomplishments of that mechanical age. The churches then embraced the technology and music as new wave churches of our age (and with similar resistance). Bach was an ultimate nerd, adept in technology of his generation. He knew abo…

Organs were widely used in chapels and then churches from the 9th Century onwards. Bach was working in a musical and technological context that was already centuries old.

Meanwhile Hillsong is repackaged millennial pop/country/hints-of-EDM with all rough edges sanded down to a glossy frictionless finish. It's slick and corporate and essentially parasitic on popular music stylings, visual imagery, and performance tropes.

There's nothing nerdy or edgy about it (unless you include some of the criminal allegations that surround Hillsong - which everyone probably should).

So I think comparing it to the output of a technical genius like Bach is pushing the truth envelope a little too far to be completely convincing.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#98

Post by packetslave » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

The other 900lb gorilla in the contemporary Christian music world today is Bethel Church, in Redding CA. They've put out as much if not more of than Hillsong in terms of the music played in contemporary churches these days. Too bad their great music hides some "interesting" theology, IMHO.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#99

Post by armandososa » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

I've been playing in worship groups for +20 years now and I'm currently leading the youth band in a very small church and here are two things that I've been noting recently:

Hillsong's music and most "mainstream" music that come from white english-spoken megachurches have lyrics that talk about "grace","love" and "God accepting you as you are". While the themes on worship music coming from South America (and I think black churches in US too) are more about "Joy", "Freedom" and "God, the mighty warrior defeating his enemies and delivering his people". I found that really interesting.

The other thing is that even while Hillsong's and similar music is very shallow and simplistic, it is becoming increasingly difficult to perform with simple, cheap instruments. So small and poor bands like ours lose appeal against the ones in megachurches with lots of instruments, talent-pool and technology.

I, for one, I'm embracing this and going for a rock-punk attitude for my little worship band.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#100

Post by chandrew » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

jenebzix wrote: post #94

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #88

Hillsong NYC volunteer software engineer here. We’re passionate about using our skills to serve the local community in addition to our church. Shoot me an email if you’re in the area and would like to chat about helping local nonprofits with code. e at emersonhall dot com

Your church is also passionate about alienating its members from non-believers, and oppressing LGBT folk. All while ignoring the actual message of your deity. Keep you help to yourself buddy.

Well, that escalated quickly.