Wow. I was hooked right away.
Worth reading.
Complaint written on TP. Hard to imagine that hell.
A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
31–39 of 39 posts
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course the Supreme Court case is there, it would be very weird if it wasn't. But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way, as if he was fighting an odd bit of tax legislation, when the reality was he used prisoners as literal cotton picking slaves, personally oversaw brutal violence, and deprived 16,000 prisoners of due process. I mean, come on! He literally used violence to force prisoners to lie under oat…
> But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way Wikipedia articles should be neutral, fact based, and objective. If there is something important missing then add it neutrally with a citation. When Wikipedia articles aren't neutral they become a failed shitstorm. For example see the article on Social Justice versus Social Justice Warrior, one of which is not neutral and locked from any edits. * https://en.wikipe…
I'm confused, I took a brief look at both of those articles and they don't seem like a "failed shitstorm". Sure, there are points to improve, but it doesn't seem terribly bad. Which one is supposed to be the "failed shitstorm" and why? (I've been called an SJW before, so I might have some left-leaning bias here)
But those articles are irrelevant to the discussion. I've contributed to Wikipedia for years and I've got a good idea of how to add things from a neutral and objective point of view. My point is exactly that the existing article is not objective. For example, pretend the article of the Charleston white supremacist mass murderer said the following:
"Roof was involved in the controversy of the events of June 17, 2015. After a flurry of media attention, he became the lead defendant in the trial United States v. Roof (2:15-cr-00472), which was noted for the request for a bench trial..."
The above is entirely correct, and written in a neutral, flat tone, but it completely misrepresents the situation. By noting tiny, irrelevant details like the request for a bench trial and the criminal number, the article both becomes uninteresting and hides the truth. If you read the snippet you wouldn't get the idea that he was a mass murderer.
The same thing applies to the article about George Beto. He was objectively a monster. He used prisoners as literal cotton picking slaves, he operated a system that forced prisoners to mutilate themselves, and his direct subordinates shot people for no reason and let them bleed to death in an occupied dining hall "as examples". These things are not speculation, they're not partisan comments on Twitter, they're not even reporting in a possibly-biased newspaper - they're proven facts that were litigated to the highest courts of the land! These things are not even buried in court documents from decades back, they've been reported on and published! There is no reason for them to not be on Wikipedia.
Meanwhile, his page is about as dry and non-negative as it possibly could be. It reads like intentionally obfuscated, reputation-managed doublespeak, and only makes reference to some of the things he was convicted of in vague ways. It's a tragedy.
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Looking at the WP article history, the current mention of his fight with her is in there from the beginning. It's not that anyone has been adding or removing it, just no one cares enough to add more on it...
Of course the Supreme Court case is there, it would be very weird if it wasn't. But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way, as if he was fighting an odd bit of tax legislation, when the reality was he used prisoners as literal cotton picking slaves, personally oversaw brutal violence, and deprived 16,000 prisoners of due process. I mean, come on! He literally used violence to force prisoners to lie under oat…
I think you're making a lot of assumptions about how easy it is to learn these things now that a longform article has dug it all up and excerpted the most salacious bits for you. If you are a Wikipedian 5 or 10 years ago doing a bit of work on the article and sketching out a stub, where do you get a copy of trial testimony from Sewell, if you even know about it? You going to drive over to Texas to visit the court room and pay $0.1/page for photocopies and read a few hundred pages in case there's something useful?
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course the Supreme Court case is there, it would be very weird if it wasn't. But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way, as if he was fighting an odd bit of tax legislation, when the reality was he used prisoners as literal cotton picking slaves, personally oversaw brutal violence, and deprived 16,000 prisoners of due process. I mean, come on! He literally used violence to force prisoners to lie under oat…
I think you're making a lot of assumptions about how easy it is to learn these things now that a longform article has dug it all up and excerpted the most salacious bits for you. If you are a Wikipedian 5 or 10 years ago doing a bit of work on the article and sketching out a stub, where do you get a copy of trial testimony from Sewell, if you even know about it? You going to drive over to Texas to visit the court roo…
Thats gp’s point though, isn’t it? For such a vast crime, its managed to get covered up to an impressive degree, even despite his death. It normally shouldn’t be that difficult to unearth such a controversial and recent event; and wikipedia, which often manages to cover events faded from the public memory, has failed to cover this, speaks to the degree at which this has been covered up.
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way Wikipedia articles should be neutral, fact based, and objective. If there is something important missing then add it neutrally with a citation. When Wikipedia articles aren't neutral they become a failed shitstorm. For example see the article on Social Justice versus Social Justice Warrior, one of which is not neutral and locked from any edits. * https://en.wikipe…
How do you add "Beto was a sadistic monster" and have it seem neutral? Factual and objective, but I'm sure it would not be accepted.
You gather addition fact based sources to cite.
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way Wikipedia articles should be neutral, fact based, and objective. If there is something important missing then add it neutrally with a citation. When Wikipedia articles aren't neutral they become a failed shitstorm. For example see the article on Social Justice versus Social Justice Warrior, one of which is not neutral and locked from any edits. * https://en.wikipe…
I'm confused, I took a brief look at both of those articles and they don't seem like a "failed shitstorm". Sure, there are points to improve, but it doesn't seem terribly bad. Which one is supposed to be the "failed shitstorm" and why? (I've been called an SJW before, so I might have some left-leaning bias here) But those articles are irrelevant to the discussion. I've contributed to Wikipedia for years and I've got…
Then find sources that say as much and paraphrase from them with citations.
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#37The damage to Beto’s reputation, however, was the true cost.
If I understand correctly, and if the source is correct and not significantly misleading, he's a murderer, a human trafficker and an influence peddler. This guy should have gotten death sentence.
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you elaborate?
during the 70s and 80s, there was a huge influx in american prisoners due to the war on drugs and more severe sentencing that followed the surge in crime beginning the 60s. the old prison culture was organized around severe methods like the one described in this essay, and small groups of prisoners who tended to keep each other in line following a 'convict code' of behavioral norms and a system of seniority. the surg…
Very interesting - thanks for the info!
Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System
#39What a petty no one told Fred Cruz that when he gets out of prison that's when he'll REALLY need his Buddhist practice.