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A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

texasmonthly.com

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Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#21

Post by nyolfen »

tqi wrote: post #17
nyolfen wrote: post #13

as usual, texas monthly knocks it out of the park. it's darkly ironic that beto's prediction of inmate-run prisons would come to pass, though for many reasons beyond just administration reform.

Can you elaborate?

during the 70s and 80s, there was a huge influx in american prisoners due to the war on drugs and more severe sentencing that followed the surge in crime beginning the 60s. the old prison culture was organized around severe methods like the one described in this essay, and small groups of prisoners who tended to keep each other in line following a 'convict code' of behavioral norms and a system of seniority. the surge in population, especially of men who were younger than the old timers who previously made up the bulk of the long-term population (sentences tended to be much shorter than they are now), threw the situation into chaos. reciprocal violence, petty predation and prison riots suddenly exploded.

the old system broke down because the guards and older inmates could no longer effectively keep the new prisoners in line. the power vacuum was eventually filled by the race-based gangs we know today, which stepped in to effectively provide governance where the state was no longer able to. the massive availability of drugs provided them with a business model and incentive for creating stability among the other prisoners, enforced by ruthless violence where necessary.

it's still this way today in american prisons. the state of course formally controls the facility, but the gangs exert extraordinary power underneath the surface, over the relations and arrangements that aren't legible to the administration. i'm not making any normative claims about which arrangement was better, but it's a pretty interesting story. i'm giving a very brief summary of what i read in this book:

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=A6D69CBF4ADEEA046A4...

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#22

Post by chris_wot »

noobermin wrote: post #8
theparanoid wrote: post #6

Women love bad boys e.g. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179107/James-Holme...

James Holmes should not be compared to Fred Cruz in this story. Even the crimes Cruz committed are nowhere near as grave as Holmes' and even so, the connection between the Frances Jalet and Fred Cruz has no comparison to the sort of murderer fascination you link to here.

Not to mention the stereotyping and condescension in the parent poster's comment is extraordinary.

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#23

Post by daodedickinson »

mattigames wrote: post #9
owenversteeg wrote: post #4

Interesting how he still seems to enjoy a clean reputation on the Internet. His Wikipedia page is spotless and there seem to be plenty of places extolling him all over. I'm pretty surprised, given that he died in 1991 and I figure he'd be universally seen as a terrible person. But he's noted in several places as a master of PR, so perhaps that continued after his death, despite causing the death and enslavement of co…

Happens all over Wikipedia, for example Aleister Crowley (same one the Ozzy Osbourne song "Mr Crowley" is based on) is described as an scholar and where "occultism" is hold in high regard never mentioning its fictional nature and never suggesting or implying its just another money-making scam scheme; heck the Wikipedia page for Crowley or for occultism dosn't mention the word "scam" even once despite being one of the…

It's a power scheme, NOT a mere standard money scheme.

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#24

Post by paulgrant999 »

the correct way to force prison systems to follow the law and their regulations, is called a "consent decree". it forces them under penalty of law, to actually live up to specific terms in a settlement.

unfortunately; they are now banned ... "just for prisons". the courts will not enforce, or create any new consent decrees... "because it denies agencies their discretion".

the same discretion, that leads to rampant abuses in prisons and "detention" camps.

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#25

Post by ex3xu »

mproud wrote: post #18

Amazing. Has this been turned into a movie yet?

Looks like there was an archival footage documentary that aired on PBS back in 2008: http://writwritermovie.com/trailer.html

But my reaction is the same as yours -- maybe it was just the spectacular pacing by the article writer, but this story feels like it would make a great and timely Netflix original. Like, the Green Mile meets I Love You Philip Morris.

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#26

Post by tcj_phx »

This is a fascinating article. I'd run across the term jailhouse lawyer in my readings about habeas corpus.

The law and courts have long recognized that some people aren't capable of writing their own petitions for relief, and need the help of a 'next friend' because no attorney is available to help the disadvantaged make their case. Just now I searched for "Jailhouse lawyer habeas", and found that Columbia Law School has a manual [0] to help prisoners assert their rights. Habeas corpus is one way of presenting a case to the court that says your rights were violated (the manual has a comprehensive chapter on this type of filing).

[0] A Jailhouse Lawyer’s Manual, 11th Ed. - http://jlm.law.columbia.edu/viewprevioused/

This manual would have been helpful, but it didn't show up in my searches 3 years ago... I just used Wikipedia, a template from a Florida law firm, and the legislature's listing of the state's statutes to figure out how to petition the court. The judge ruled that the hospital's authority to hold my friend against her will had expired, and that she was to be released. I made the little mistake of thinking the hospital would care about the judge's order, after their attorney blew off the hearing...

I think most state prisons have libraries for prisoners to use. Most county jails are terrible places with no meaningful access to libraries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_library#United_States

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#27

Post by gambiting »

It's interesting that in hindsight, those were the times when US was most staunchly opposed to communism - yet everything written in this article makes me think of the way USSR treated its citizens. Yes, there were laws that protected you, yes you could appeal to courts and at least in theory your rights were always protected. In practice, it was the same as the situation in Texas - people put in charge of prisons or judges answered to absolutely no one and the laws were completely arbitrary and could be dismissed without any reason. The targeting of lawyers and demanding they be fired from institutions that employed them looked exactly the same under communist rule. In any case, what is described here seems more like a torture system, not a prison system - no wonder it had such poor rehabilitation rates.

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#28

Post by austincheney »

owenversteeg wrote: post #12
gwern wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the WP article history, the current mention of his fight with her is in there from the beginning. It's not that anyone has been adding or removing it, just no one cares enough to add more on it...

Of course the Supreme Court case is there, it would be very weird if it wasn't. But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way, as if he was fighting an odd bit of tax legislation, when the reality was he used prisoners as literal cotton picking slaves, personally oversaw brutal violence, and deprived 16,000 prisoners of due process. I mean, come on! He literally used violence to force prisoners to lie under oat…

> But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way

Wikipedia articles should be neutral, fact based, and objective. If there is something important missing then add it neutrally with a citation.

When Wikipedia articles aren't neutral they become a failed shitstorm. For example see the article on Social Justice versus Social Justice Warrior, one of which is not neutral and locked from any edits.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#29

Post by JoeAltmaier »

austincheney wrote: post #28
owenversteeg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the Supreme Court case is there, it would be very weird if it wasn't. But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way, as if he was fighting an odd bit of tax legislation, when the reality was he used prisoners as literal cotton picking slaves, personally oversaw brutal violence, and deprived 16,000 prisoners of due process. I mean, come on! He literally used violence to force prisoners to lie under oat…

> But it's phrased in a very specific and neutral way Wikipedia articles should be neutral, fact based, and objective. If there is something important missing then add it neutrally with a citation. When Wikipedia articles aren't neutral they become a failed shitstorm. For example see the article on Social Justice versus Social Justice Warrior, one of which is not neutral and locked from any edits. * https://en.wikipe…

How do you add "Beto was a sadistic monster" and have it seem neutral? Factual and objective, but I'm sure it would not be accepted.

Re: A Love Story That Upended the Texas Prison System

#30

Post by mattigames »

daodedickinson wrote: post #23
mattigames wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens all over Wikipedia, for example Aleister Crowley (same one the Ozzy Osbourne song "Mr Crowley" is based on) is described as an scholar and where "occultism" is hold in high regard never mentioning its fictional nature and never suggesting or implying its just another money-making scam scheme; heck the Wikipedia page for Crowley or for occultism dosn't mention the word "scam" even once despite being one of the…

It's a power scheme, NOT a mere standard money scheme.

Ok, but that isn't mentioned either.
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