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Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

reuters.com

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Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#81

Post by lern_too_spel »

endorphone wrote: post #80
lern_too_spel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the sphere of data that Google has is just a tiny pittance compared to on a Play Store device (where they know essentially everything) They know fewer things than Apple knows for people who never opt in to any of the opt in settings and leave opt out settings alone. On a Play Store device, AGPS data collection is opt in. On iOS, it is not even opt out — you can't even disable it. Play Store devices look even better…

Another conflation. I was specifically talking about what Google knows. By using an iOS device, even if I use Google Search their universe of knowledge about me collapses. Even if I accept the notion that Apple collects more data than Google (which is dubious), Google's intentions with that data are far more insidious. I simply trust Apple a lot more as well.

> Even if I accept the notion that Apple collects more data than Google (which is dubious)

I showed you exactly how they collect more data. Not believing the evidence is just an example of how marketing can result in brainwashing.

You trust Apple more for the same reason, even though they have repeatedly lied to you. Remember this? "Unlike our competitors, Apple cannot bypass your passcode and therefore cannot access this data. So it's not technically feasible for us to respond to government warrants for the extraction of this data from devices in their possession running iOS 8." [1] That no longer appears on the linked Apple "privacy" page, which turned out to be nothing more than a marketing page that made claims shown to be false by the FBI. A real privacy page would have announced the changes explaining that user's data isn't as private as originally claimed with just as much fanfare instead of updating without notice.

[1] https://gizmodo.com/apple-wont-turn-over-your-phones-data-to...

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#82

Post by ethbro »

rayvy wrote: post #57
johannes1234321 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: Why can't a new party come up? Is it due to the system itself or the "will of the people"? The other question is: How democratic are those parties? - he primaries seem as such ...

> The question is: Why can't a new party come up? Is it due to the system itself or the "will of the people"? I honestly and genuinely don't think that's much of a question. I encourage you to read Lawrence Lessig's "Republic, Lost"[1] - which talks about how the big money behind campaign financing makes average Joe's feel as if they're choosing a politician based on their will , which turns out to not really be the…

Money has always been integral to political campaigning.

But I'd say the 2016 election clearly refutes your assertion.

Republican fundraising as of 6/22/2016 in USD$millions, {total}, {candidate}, {affiliated PAC} [1]: Donald Trump (67.1, 64.6, 2.5), Jeb Bush (162.1, 35.2, 126.9), Ted Cruz (158.0, 92.6, 65.4), Marco Rubio (125.0, 47.3, 61.8)

If one wants to blame the Illuminati for secretly supporting candidates... this is a harder point in history to find support.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/electi...

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#83

Post by ethbro »

chongli wrote: post #59
johannes1234321 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: Why can't a new party come up? Is it due to the system itself or the "will of the people"? The other question is: How democratic are those parties? - he primaries seem as such ...

It's due to the voting system. Plurality voting systems tend towards two-party rule. This observation is known as Duverger's law [1]. Now, if the US switched to a radically different voting system today, we probably wouldn't see a flourishing of outside parties tomorrow; it could take a little while. But people sympathetic to outside parties such as the Greens or the Libertarians would be far less reluctant to vote f…

Thankfully, that's gradually changing.

This November, Maine will officially be using ranked choice voting for US House and Senate seats.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#84

Post by [deleted] »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #81
endorphone wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another conflation. I was specifically talking about what Google knows. By using an iOS device, even if I use Google Search their universe of knowledge about me collapses. Even if I accept the notion that Apple collects more data than Google (which is dubious), Google's intentions with that data are far more insidious. I simply trust Apple a lot more as well.

> Even if I accept the notion that Apple collects more data than Google (which is dubious) I showed you exactly how they collect more data. Not believing the evidence is just an example of how marketing can result in brainwashing. You trust Apple more for the same reason, even though they have repeatedly lied to you. Remember this? "Unlike our competitors, Apple cannot bypass your passcode and therefore cannot access…

[deleted]

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#85

Post by Someguywhatever »

ambicapter wrote: post #63
Someguywhatever wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because google is essentially a monopoly. Almost nobody uses anything else. Because of this monopoly and all the advertising revenue, Google effectively has "infinite money" and uses it to metastasize into other areas such as maps, self driving cars etc. Nobody else can do this because nobody else has "infinite money", Google is losing money hand over fist in self driving cars, I seriously doubt that maps comes anywh…

> Nobody else can do this because nobody else has "infinite money" Apple has a higher market cap than Alphabet, Inc.

That's true, but I don't think Apple has "Fuck you" money. Google definitely has that type of cash. It has near infinite recurring revenue. They don't even need to do anything with their current technology to maintain this, just simply don't make any mistakes and their magical search goose will keep laying those golden eggs.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#86

Post by mythz »

Someguywhatever wrote: post #85
ambicapter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody else can do this because nobody else has "infinite money" Apple has a higher market cap than Alphabet, Inc.

That's true, but I don't think Apple has "Fuck you" money. Google definitely has that type of cash. It has near infinite recurring revenue. They don't even need to do anything with their current technology to maintain this, just simply don't make any mistakes and their magical search goose will keep laying those golden eggs.

Apple is the most valuable company in the world who makes the most profit in the world, in the last 2017 FY they made 48B in profit compared to Google 12.6B

Apple makes so much money that they’ve given back more than 200B in buy backs and billions more in dividends, Google has yet to return anything.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#87

Post by bhtru »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #38
bhtru wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it incorrect to believe that there’s more telemetry sent to Google on an Android device vs an iPhone? IIRC, Google specific cookies in Chrome desktop can’t necessarily be turned off by typical methods so can we infer that a device running Android has more monitoring a la that vein than an iPhone?

Yes, it is incorrect. Using Chrome on Android also sends the exact same information as Chrome on iOS.

The default browser for iOS is Safari whose default search engine is Google. Does the comparison hold true still?

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#88

Post by lern_too_spel »

bhtru wrote: post #87
lern_too_spel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is incorrect. Using Chrome on Android also sends the exact same information as Chrome on iOS.

The default browser for iOS is Safari whose default search engine is Google. Does the comparison hold true still?

Up to the user. On Android, the user does not even need to sign in to an account to use the device. On iOS, you must sign into an Apple ID (which, unlike a Google or Facebook account, can never be deleted). Until very recently, you had to provide a credit card to download any apps at all onto your iPhone. This was never the case on Google Play Android devices.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#89

Post by ionised »

Aloha wrote: post #29
mtgx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Default presets are not the user "choosing" something. It's why companies always choose the opt-out method vs opt-in.

Choosing to not change a setting is still a choice.

Not if you're ignorant of the choice.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#90

Post by Someguywhatever »

mythz wrote: post #86
Someguywhatever wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but I don't think Apple has "Fuck you" money. Google definitely has that type of cash. It has near infinite recurring revenue. They don't even need to do anything with their current technology to maintain this, just simply don't make any mistakes and their magical search goose will keep laying those golden eggs.

Apple is the most valuable company in the world who makes the most profit in the world, in the last 2017 FY they made 48B in profit compared to Google 12.6B Apple makes so much money that they’ve given back more than 200B in buy backs and billions more in dividends, Google has yet to return anything.

Apple is only a couple of Bad iPhone designs away from being irrelevant. Everything you are saying is from a shareholder perspective, Apple does not have a monopoly like Google does. So what if they have a lot of money? Wait for a downturn and all the Apple investors who've been getting dividends DON'T get a dividend for once, it wont be pretty. Google on the other hand doesn't have as much money and isn't as "valuable" on paper only. The reality is far different. Google has infinite money but not as much money in the bank right now. Apple makes iPhone and is irrelevant outside of making iPhones. If some other companies phone becomes the "iPhone" then Apple is dead.
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