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Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

reuters.com

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Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#61

Post by Fnoord »

l3robot wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

The book Jennifer Government by Max Barry (and of course Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson) is one of a bunch which touches upon this subject.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#62

Post by macintux »

y04nn wrote: post #16
swombat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried a variety of search engines and I always end up going back to Google. They're just better overall for me. That's been my experience and based on that I can see it being justifiable for Apple (who is after all a very opinionated company) taking a similar stand: we don't like defaulting to Google but they're just the best game in town so if we want the iPhone to be the best phone out of the box it needs to d…

They may be the "best" (for now) but that don't contradict the fact that I want to be able to have the choice of my default search engine when I start a new device. Many people may not event know they can change that setting if it is not proposed the first time.

The challenge there is that new device setup is already burdened with more essential tasks.

It's gotten much better with the recent ability for one iOS device to prime the pump for a new one, but I have a hard time picturing Apple treating this setting as vital to the device setup.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#63

Post by ambicapter »

Someguywhatever wrote: post #44
ummonk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's the issue. Even if they weren't getting paid, they'd still have to choose Google for a reasonable user experience. And I don't see that changing. It's one thing for Apple to get into Maps, and it's another for them to get into search...

Because google is essentially a monopoly. Almost nobody uses anything else. Because of this monopoly and all the advertising revenue, Google effectively has "infinite money" and uses it to metastasize into other areas such as maps, self driving cars etc. Nobody else can do this because nobody else has "infinite money", Google is losing money hand over fist in self driving cars, I seriously doubt that maps comes anywh…

> Nobody else can do this because nobody else has "infinite money"

Apple has a higher market cap than Alphabet, Inc.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#64

Post by frockington »

lovich wrote: post #34
dantheman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many who don't want the government involved in 'net neutrality.' The FCC under Obama was acting in an antidemocratic manner when they claimed authority to enforce net neutrality. The executive expanding its power without the interaction of congress is far more anti-democratic than a vote that turned out a way that you didn't like. There are many who think the net is evolving in a great way and want to limit…

Are many people != Large majority. The large majority publicly backed net neutrality and then the government choice the opposite choice, which only helped a set of large, rich companies. Yes in a democracy you will frequently deal with votes not going the way you want. Having powerful groups who can get the law changed to benefit them is a different issue and is indicative of a de facto oligarchy

I would say the large majority doesn't care about net neutrality in any meaningful way. Personally, I researched it and couldn't find any reason to a have a stance on the issue.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#65

Post by netcan »

munificent wrote: post #42
l3robot wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

> Like were unable to create a stable democratic state. I believe equality is an unstable equilibrium. Throw a bunch of people on an island where everyone starts out equal. Soon, some will have marginally more power than others. Maybe they happen to be stronger, or washed ashore at a point with a few more coconuts and fish, maybe they just get lucky. What do you use that extra power for? The obvious answer is to use…

I can almost hear a Scottish accent in that argument.

IDk if a thought experiment about a desert island conducted inside a mind that is already thinking in terms of economic dynamics is... There are plenty of examples in the real world. It's pretty rare that little societies have dynamics like that.

Small groups of people usually share instead of trading. Power structures usually emerge from violence, religion or someone becoming chief. Power built by the sweat of one's (scottish) brow is something more characteristic of modern, monetary, large scale industrial and post-industrial societies.

Pharaoh wasn't pharaoh because his ancestors were marginally better farmers.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#66

Post by tracker1 »

munificent wrote: post #42
l3robot wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

> Like were unable to create a stable democratic state. I believe equality is an unstable equilibrium. Throw a bunch of people on an island where everyone starts out equal. Soon, some will have marginally more power than others. Maybe they happen to be stronger, or washed ashore at a point with a few more coconuts and fish, maybe they just get lucky. What do you use that extra power for? The obvious answer is to use…

And seems to center around the same ideologies that were most prevalent in the early 1900's too. Industrial/corporate capitalism and communism respectively (new names, same ideas). In the end many didn't learn and the same mistakes will repeat. Pragmatism places things somewhere in the middle, but this time around people are far less willing to make concessions or even have conversations for the sake of progress.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#67

Post by frockington »

skybrian wrote: post #35
l3robot wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

The US is deeply divided. But in the EU, you can see what government power can do. In the end, even very large companies have to follow the law.

The EU is probably even more divided from what I can see over there in Europe. Aren't Italy, Austria, and Spain actively looking into leaving?

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#68

Post by sjg007 »

rayvy wrote: post #57
johannes1234321 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: Why can't a new party come up? Is it due to the system itself or the "will of the people"? The other question is: How democratic are those parties? - he primaries seem as such ...

> The question is: Why can't a new party come up? Is it due to the system itself or the "will of the people"? I honestly and genuinely don't think that's much of a question. I encourage you to read Lawrence Lessig's "Republic, Lost"[1] - which talks about how the big money behind campaign financing makes average Joe's feel as if they're choosing a politician based on their will , which turns out to not really be the…

One more reason why we need to overturn Citizens United.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#69

Post by greglindahl »

guyzero wrote: post #49
SteveGregory wrote: post #30

I've wondered what would happen if Apple acquired DuckDuckGo. In theory, Apple could overpay a lot and still make a ridiculous return by using it as their default search engine. The usage would multiply overnight. It would also reinforce Apple's position on privacy, and make Apple less dependent on Google for revenue.

How would Apple make any return? Do you think DDG's ads are as profitable as Google's?

In 2014 I thought that Google paid Apple around 1/10 of Google's search ad revenue from iPhones, but that number involved quite a bit of guessing.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#70

Post by RobertoG »

netcan wrote: post #65
munificent wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like were unable to create a stable democratic state. I believe equality is an unstable equilibrium. Throw a bunch of people on an island where everyone starts out equal. Soon, some will have marginally more power than others. Maybe they happen to be stronger, or washed ashore at a point with a few more coconuts and fish, maybe they just get lucky. What do you use that extra power for? The obvious answer is to use…

I can almost hear a Scottish accent in that argument. IDk if a thought experiment about a desert island conducted inside a mind that is already thinking in terms of economic dynamics is... There are plenty of examples in the real world. It's pretty rare that little societies have dynamics like that. Small groups of people usually share instead of trading. Power structures usually emerge from violence, religion or som…

I think that you are misinterpreting what he is saying.

He is not saying that Pharaons were marginally better farmers but that balance in power is intrinsically unstable.

Losing a simple pawn in the beginning of the game makes you lost the game.

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