Live data from Hacker News

Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

reuters.com

41–50 of 91 posts

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#41
post #24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to think either. Thinking about it at a higher level than this: Some days I really think people don't know how to live under a democracy. There just always seems to be this segment of the population that want to be told what to think (and preferably told things are going well) Some days I think liberty is the only way to live life, but that people mistake that liberty doesn't come at a cost. Most pe…

Politics in a democracy has always disgusted everyone. Per Churchill, "No one pre­tends that democ­ra­cy is per­fect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democ­ra­cy is the worst form of Gov­ern­ment except for all those oth­er forms that have been tried from time to time..."

US is not a democracy, it's a republic AFAIK. The design philosophy behind the architechture of US Government is explicitly that it is not a democracy.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#42
post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

> Like were unable to create a stable democratic state.

I believe equality is an unstable equilibrium.

Throw a bunch of people on an island where everyone starts out equal. Soon, some will have marginally more power than others. Maybe they happen to be stronger, or washed ashore at a point with a few more coconuts and fish, maybe they just get lucky.

What do you use that extra power for? The obvious answer is to use it to force others to give you more power. Let that cycle run for a long time and you get the wildly unequal despotic power structures witnessed through almost all of human history.

The reason democracy "wins" is because bringing the least-powerful people up is a net benefit to everyone, including the most powerful, even if it requires bringing some of the most powerful down. It's a more efficient system -- extracts the most value from the most people -- so the total volume under the equality curve goes up at the expense of the top end going down a little.

For that to work, though, everyone has to buy into the system, even the most powerful. You need a populace that will willingly sacrifice personal power for the betterment of the whole. That requires intense, constant cultural education and community building.

When that breaks down, it's incredibly easy for a society to fall back to the default state of "everyone in it for themselves".

The horrors of WWII were enough to scare people shitless about unchecked power concentrated in the hands of a few. But those horrors are passing out of living memory right now, so it's little surprise that we're going back to authoritarianism and rapacious power hunger.

I'm generally an optimist about the human condition, but the news scares the shit out of me right now. It feels like we're forgetting everything about democracy and won't relearn it until we plunge headlong into WWIII.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#43
I wonder what would happen in a parallel universe where Google says, let's change strategy, and provide all the Google suite apps, gmail, maps, photos, ... only to Android, at the cost of the Apple users/traffic. Maybe this would provide a so big advantage to Android to, in the end, recover the loss and create big issues to Apple. But my feeling is that Google pretends that the iPhone is going to be eaten by Android soon or later anyway.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#44
post #13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried a variety of search engines and I always end up going back to Google. They're just better overall for me. That's been my experience and based on that I can see it being justifiable for Apple (who is after all a very opinionated company) taking a similar stand: we don't like defaulting to Google but they're just the best game in town so if we want the iPhone to be the best phone out of the box it needs to d…

Yeah that's the issue. Even if they weren't getting paid, they'd still have to choose Google for a reasonable user experience. And I don't see that changing. It's one thing for Apple to get into Maps, and it's another for them to get into search...

Because google is essentially a monopoly. Almost nobody uses anything else. Because of this monopoly and all the advertising revenue, Google effectively has "infinite money" and uses it to metastasize into other areas such as maps, self driving cars etc. Nobody else can do this because nobody else has "infinite money", Google is losing money hand over fist in self driving cars, I seriously doubt that maps comes anywhere close to breaking even. It's all funded by the bottomless pool of advertising money.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#45
China also makes it easy to see there really isn't much difference between the two corporations, accept that of convenience. Apple already operates in China and complies to the whims of the Chinese government. Google too may start doing that. The Apple business model allows Apple to have a stronger stance for privacy when convenient, but they aren't willing to forgo the big buck when it comes to the big business (China)

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#46

Isn’t this kind of a hyperbolic comparison? This is revenue, and should be compared to total revenue, not profit. By this measure, if two people pay me $1, and I have $1 in costs, then both people are responsible for 100% of my $1 profits.

Not really. The direct costs to Apple for this revenue is probably inconsequential.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring that you can change the search engine, what Google knows about a user using Google search on an iPhone, and a user using search on a Google Play Android device are extraordinarily different. Let's not pretend at some false equivalency here.

No, they are exactly the same. Despite what Apple marketing would like you to believe, the search app collects the same information when you perform the same actions on both devices.

"the search app"

Genuinely - what's this on iOS? I don't recall ever having used a "search app" on my iPhone.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#48
post #21
post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

I don't know what to think either. Thinking about it at a higher level than this: Some days I really think people don't know how to live under a democracy. There just always seems to be this segment of the population that want to be told what to think (and preferably told things are going well) Some days I think liberty is the only way to live life, but that people mistake that liberty doesn't come at a cost. Most pe…

>Most people don't have enough skin in the game to be willing to accept that cost.

This reminds me somewhat of the argument over voting rights during the founding of the Constitution, ultimately being left up to the States. The argument for restriction was that those dependent on the wills of others are not independent or privileged enough to act in a way other than securing their own interests; the argument against this idea is fairly obvious.

From William Blackstone's Commentaries of the law of England is the most concise summary of the pro I'm aware of.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_2_1s3.h...

http://www.vindicatingthefounders.com/library/property-requi...

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#49

I've wondered what would happen if Apple acquired DuckDuckGo. In theory, Apple could overpay a lot and still make a ridiculous return by using it as their default search engine. The usage would multiply overnight. It would also reinforce Apple's position on privacy, and make Apple less dependent on Google for revenue.

How would Apple make any return? Do you think DDG's ads are as profitable as Google's?

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#50
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics in a democracy has always disgusted everyone. Per Churchill, "No one pre­tends that democ­ra­cy is per­fect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democ­ra­cy is the worst form of Gov­ern­ment except for all those oth­er forms that have been tried from time to time..."

US is not a democracy, it's a republic AFAIK. The design philosophy behind the architechture of US Government is explicitly that it is not a democracy.

The US is both a democracy and a republic. The terms are not mutually exclusive. To the contrary, it is much more common to be both than to be just one or the other.
Post reply on HN