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Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#311

Post by simion314 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #256
simion314 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the person you replied but in C style syntax when you type { in an IDE the { is inserted automatically so there is no risk to forget about it, also if you copy paste a piece of code you just run the action to reformat the file or the selected code and the braces will correctly fall onto place. I am not saying that Python syntax is a big issue, but is one more thing to keep in mind and it potentially trip up…

His point was about not needing a "magic" editor. Neither does python, it works with spaces or tabs as long as you are consistent, and tells you where you aren't.

My point is that if I define a metric for easier to use by a beginner programmer (child) then C syntax > Python syntax

If you define a different metric, maybe pretty syntax then it would compare in reverse.

Though I don't have experience or seen people testing this on children and "proving" that having to keep in mind spaces/tabs is harder then the braces and semicolumns (when using a decent IDE) so I may be wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#312

Post by Slimbo »

d_runs_far wrote: post #271
martin1b wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. My kids love scratch. It shows them event driven programming with quick returns. The can also share their apps and download others so they can download and modify.

How old are the kids? Mine is just turning 5, and I've been looking at this as an option, but as many have said, I don't want to feel like I'm 'forcing' the tech learning on him.

Scratch is good from around age 8 to 14 or so, depending on their ability. Most kids don't even know they're learning, scratch is really fun. Coder Dojo has some great lessons, eg this one to make your own version of plants v zombies:

http://kata.coderdojo.com/wiki/Scratch_Plants_vs_Zombies

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#314

Post by anttipoi »

DrRacket? (https://racket-lang.org)

That is what I gave my mom when she asked what she could try programming on. It features a simple whole window editor/repl where you can get straight into business.

What failed was the supporting literature. I thought Realm of Racket would have been ideal for self-study but it did assume more background than she had...

https://www.amazon.com/Realm-Racket-Learn-Program-Game/dp/15...

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#315

Post by wodenokoto »

potta_coffee wrote: post #3

The closest thing I've found to this is Pico-8: not a computer, a piece of software, but it's very cool. It has a simple text editor for writing Lua code, a simple sprite editor, and a simple sound editor, all for creating games. It's a nice little sandbox for playing with code and creating things. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php

The first version of Celeste was done in Pico-8 at a games hackathon, and the success caused the author to develop an expanded version, which in my opinion is one of the greatest platformers ever.

The pico-8 version exists as a game within the game and is great fun as well!

Website: http://www.celestegame.com/

GDC talk about development of Celeste: https://youtu.be/4RlpMhBKNr0

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#316

Post by a-saleh »

At a previous team a colleague was a big proponent of BBC MicroBit [1], I have seen it sell around 15-20$

You are expected to code in your browser, then download a binary and copy it over to the little device that is recognized as a usb-drive. You have scratch-like javascript ide [1] and a python ide [3]

I remember a presentation about the ways they used in a class of 8yo kids. They were making simple games, managed to network them to create simple pagers.

It is the most hardware thing you can get with the lowesr barier to entry, i.m.o :)

[1] https://microbit.org/resellers/ [2] https://makecode.microbit.org/# [3] https://python.microbit.org/v/1.1

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#317

Post by pxi »

I've been maintaining an obscure version of BASIC called "SmallBASIC" for a few too many years. It started out as a calculator for the PalmPilot (by another developer). You can build it on a raspberry machine or there's an out of date binary you could try. https://smallbasic.github.io

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#318

Post by kmonsen »

astrodust wrote: post #124

In the old days you saved up an extraordinary amount of money, bought a Commodore 64, plugged it in, and then had absolutely no idea what to do unless you had books. So you went and got books or magazines, some maybe from the library, some from bookstores, and many of them might be for systems other than the C64. It wasn't uncommon for a magazine to have to cater to a dozen slightly different versions of BASIC: Apple…

I was going to say the web browser. It is pretty easy to start learning with HTML, than CSS and JS. There is immediate feedback and you can copy and modify sources from other places.

The benefit is that it is really quick to build something decent and useful.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#320

Post by M_Bakhtiari »

astrodust wrote: post #136
itomato wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going back to a world where free and open software was the norm would be a mistake? Being able to buy one of a half-dozen or more periodicals with informative commentary on an accessible programming language would be a mistake? Empowering a generation of STEM learners with a basic programming language centered around the bedrock of computer science would be a mistake? Safely and easily gaining first-hand experience w…

If you think BASIC was free and open have I got a letter from Bill Gates to show you. GCC is free and open. Clang is free and open. BASIC is commercial, proprietary, closed-source software. The "bedrock of computer science" is machine code, or if you're not a fan of reading and writing hex values or flipping physical switches on your Altair, then assembly. Everything after that is an abstraction.

>The "bedrock of computer science" is machine code

It hasn't been machine code for at least two, maybe three decades.

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