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Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#251

Post by simion314 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #168
ComputerGuru wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just use a language that doesn’t have that problem, then you don’t need a magic editor.

It's not a problem, it's a lot simpler than typing matching braces everywhere. Python is one of the easiest languages to learn.

I am not the person you replied but in C style syntax when you type { in an IDE the { is inserted automatically so there is no risk to forget about it, also if you copy paste a piece of code you just run the action to reformat the file or the selected code and the braces will correctly fall onto place.

I am not saying that Python syntax is a big issue, but is one more thing to keep in mind and it potentially trip up children(probably something more visual that is impossible to make syntax errors is better but I did not find something that is engaging enough)

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#252

Post by andrepd »

codebolt wrote: post #184
nicolashahn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted this but I need to reiterate my support. When I was a kid, I was heavily into video games and had a burning desire to create my own. However, the options for doing so were not great. One of my middle school teachers tried to introduce us to programming via creating Space Invaders in perl, which went as well as you might imagine. There were a few GUI game making applications that were all terrible and extrem…

You think you had it rough, at 15 I taught myself C/C++ Win32 programming with COM and early DirectX versions from textbooks and online tutorials. I'm thankful now though, as most modern frameworks are a breeze to learn by comparison. Looking back it was a bit like learning to swim by jumping in the deep end of the pool. It certainly gave me the confidence that I can figure stuff out, even in a new domain. And it's g…

Mine was Pascal in Turbo Pascal (6?) for DOS, circa 2004. It speaks volumes to the outstanding quality of Turbo Pascal and the Pascal language that it still holds up, more than 20 years later.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#253

Post by drivers99 »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #226

Personally, I'd just get them an Apple II. They're still plentiful and cheap to find on eBay, and it's exactly what you're looking for. There are modern hardware upgrades you can find to use CF or SD cards in place of floppies, so old media won't be an issue, as well as modern ways to connect to an LCD screen, and even Ethernet cards if you want to go online. And of course, the Apple II is supremely open and hackable…

I second that. I just set up an Apple IIgs last weekend and was making some small Basic programs with my son. He was actually really into it, unlike in the past when he was too young. He has had some exposure to Scratch so that may have helped as well. We didn't have any way to load or save programs, so I'll have to look into the cards you mentioned.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#254

Post by austinl »

potta_coffee wrote: post #3

The closest thing I've found to this is Pico-8: not a computer, a piece of software, but it's very cool. It has a simple text editor for writing Lua code, a simple sprite editor, and a simple sound editor, all for creating games. It's a nice little sandbox for playing with code and creating things. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php

I started to program in Lua with the LÖVE game engine in early high school, and can say it's one of the main reasons I was motivated to study CS in college.

It's a simple, 2D, open-source game engine that runs on all platforms — I'd recommend this and other sandbox-style environments to anyone getting into programming.

https://love2d.org/

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#255

Post by emmanueloga_ »

jedieaston wrote: post #218
emmanueloga_ wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh damn, such a rabbit hole :-p. Also found this list [1]. A couple on the list run BASIC! E.g. [2]. I just learned there's this thing "Windows 10 IoT", [3] a Win10 version for low power devices like the raspberri pi. Would be interesting to try to run B8 in there! 1: https://github.com/paladin-t/fantasy 2: https://store.steampowered.com/app/767240/BASIC8/ 3: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/Download…

Windows 10 IoT can't run Win32 applications, so Steam and BASIC8 won't work without major re-tuning.

Got it. Next best thing I could find: a mini PC. E.g. you can get one of these gigabyte ones for about $100, but I think comes w/o an HDD.

1: https://www.gigabyte.com/Mini-PcBarebone/GB-BXBT-2807-rev-10...

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#256

Post by mixmastamyk »

simion314 wrote: post #251
mixmastamyk wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a problem, it's a lot simpler than typing matching braces everywhere. Python is one of the easiest languages to learn.

I am not the person you replied but in C style syntax when you type { in an IDE the { is inserted automatically so there is no risk to forget about it, also if you copy paste a piece of code you just run the action to reformat the file or the selected code and the braces will correctly fall onto place. I am not saying that Python syntax is a big issue, but is one more thing to keep in mind and it potentially trip up…

His point was about not needing a "magic" editor. Neither does python, it works with spaces or tabs as long as you are consistent, and tells you where you aren't.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#257

Post by drngdds »

excalibur wrote: post #230
JacobJans wrote: post #178

This post reminds me of a running line of thought that's been going on in my head for quite some time: "Single Purpose Devices." The main disadvantage of most computing devices is that they offer too many options; making them mentally unwieldy. A "single purpose device" is created to support just one purpose. The Kindle is perhaps the most famous example; it practically created an industry. Sure, it can do more than…

Dumb phone -> Talk and text, no camera, no browser, cheap and readily available. Please?

I really like the idea of ditching my smartphone for a dumbphone, but giving up Google Maps would be rough. Knowing the fastest way to get from point A to point B (including public transportation!) is genuinely really useful.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#258

Post by excalibur »

AzMoo_ wrote: post #240
excalibur wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb phone -> Talk and text, no camera, no browser, cheap and readily available. Please?

The Nokia 3310 is about as close as you'll get I think.

Bought one. Physically removed the camera. Still has a browser and and app store, not to mention a builtin facebook app that can't be removed by the user. And the price point is around $60.

There's no reason for a bare-bones dumbphone to have any of that shit, or for it to cost more than $20.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#259

Post by thedaemon »

crispytx wrote: post #191

Retro/Vintage computing enthusiast here. I actually got into playing around with old computers because I was interested in using a computer that simply ran Microsoft BASIC for the operating system. Much simpler times! But yeah, I don't think there is anything out there right now like what you're talking about. I would suggest simply purchasing a retro computer if you want to teach your kids the old school way. Python…

Also QB64, which has been mentioned here. It's pretty backwards compatible with QBasic, which is what I learned Basic with. It's cross compatible as well.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#260

Post by nazri1 »

b_t_s wrote: post #96
blihp wrote: post #81

For those of us who grew up in the 8-bit era, this has a lot of appeal since that's how we got engaged. But for most kids today, is this sort of ab initio approach really the right way to go about it? Based on my experience with a few different types of kids/personalities, I'm skeptical. Dropping them into the command line / IDE of any language / environment is likely to leave them both unimpressed and lost. Neither…

Truestory. I was and embedded engineer and I still find this stuff pretty dull. I can't imagine a kid caring unless they have a specific project in mind. Especially when everything these days has nice graphics and there are so many options for apps, games, websites etc that are easier and more engaging.

Truestory. I graduated with EE degree and a few years after that I still get a kick out of making an LED, connected directly to my desktop printer port, blink on and off. Different strokes for different folks, yeah?
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