Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 340 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#281

Post by JacobJans »

nyjah wrote: post #276
JacobJans wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. What kind of software do you have on the computers? Is there anything, beyond the physical separation, that supports the purpose of each device? (Maybe something as simple as physical location, color, a "sticker", or something else altogether.)

Only software on the machines are strictly for what I am using them for. I have a router with a harddrive if I do download something and want to put it on another machine, but I don't remote desktop into them or anything. Each computer is on a separate desk, own monitor and mouse and keyboard. I just like it separate and not complicated. Keeps work stuff super focused and clean, for me. I could network them more if I…

> Keeps work stuff super focused and clean, for me.

That's exactly why I find this setup so appealing; it really works with the natural tendencies of our minds, as opposed to constantly presenting us with a situation where we have to choose not to do one of the many distracting options just a twitch of the finger away.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#283

Post by [deleted] »

exikyut wrote: post #26
ynniv wrote: post #12

"power on to genera" would be nice.

One of these days somebody needs to find the email addresses of the people that need emailing and make the effort to politely pester and track the progress of opening Genera. I'm interested enough but can't guarantee low enough email latency on my end of staying in touch.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#284

Post by d99kris »

While not a complete hardware/software solution, there are some simple "OS'es" that boots directly into a BASIC interpreter, which should be possible to use on any old x86 laptop.

OS64: https://github.com/xlar54/emudore64

NopeOS: https://github.com/d99kris/nopeos

(Disclosure: I wrote - or rather glued together - NopeOS)

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#285

Post by anoncake »

astrodust wrote: post #246
andrewstuart wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a key point. The cognitive distance between power on and "10 print" is nothing. The cognitive distance between all modern ways to teach programming is vast.

Not really. $('h1').html('Billy Named Emperor') to hack around with web pages is actually super easy.

'PRINT "Hey there Joe"' is a lot more obvious than "magic('magic').magic('Billy Named Emperor')"

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#286

Post by dahart »

I learned on power-on-to-basic computers in ye olde days... Atari 800, Apple ][, C64, IBM PCjr. I have tried to teach my kids programming exactly the same way, I was looking for the same thing. I don’t think we can bring back ye olde days. My kids are actually interested in programming, but they don’t have the patience for command line anything. It was my wish to teach them the same way that I learned, but in retrospect, I don’t think it’s the best way for them to learn. My oldest (14 years) has been a tech freak since he was 3 years old, and he’s just starting to dig into text programming and command lines, but he won’t work on it for more than a few minutes before he’s off to YouTube. I was into that stuff by the time I was 10 and could do it for hours. Tablets and smart phones and Nintendos and Netflix and Steam add up to an environment where the choice to slow down and read console is too difficult for young kids.

If teaching is the primary goal and a power-on-to-basic not necessarily required, then there are so many great options for starting. Maybe too many. There are literally dozens of fantastic suggestions in this thread. Mobile tablets have a built-in TV and there are great apps for beginner coding. Some of the “no code” game engines are excellent for the beginner.

I looked through all the suggestions and didn’t see this one yet: open your browser devtools. You always have a browser, and it comes with a JS REPL. Chrome (for example) lets you save and evaluate snippets, and you can choose easy stuff to start with using only console.log(). It can be very similar to BASIC.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#287

Post by khazhou »

lupire wrote: post #211
khazhou wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge part of the appeal of C64-style BASIC is the lack of distractions. I mean, you're already talking about CSS! :-) A better match than Javascript (which doesn't have an interactive console, and HTML+JS is event-driven) would be Python.

a web browser has an interactive console. node.js has a text console if you don't want the web browser attached.

> a web browser has an interactive console.

A super limited one. You can't edit code there.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#288

Post by astrodust »

anoncake wrote: post #285
astrodust wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. $('h1').html('Billy Named Emperor') to hack around with web pages is actually super easy.

'PRINT "Hey there Joe"' is a lot more obvious than "magic('magic').magic('Billy Named Emperor')"

It's all magic until you explain it. How is PRINT any different from console.log()?

On those historical platforms you're quickly going to have to explain what GOTO is and how it's different from GOSUB, and then that you'll need to plan out your program in advance so you have enough "lines" to write in what you want, and that if you mess stuff up, you can't easily renumber, so you'll just patch in a bunch of GOTO statements to work around that and...

JavaScript, ugly as it can be, is 100x simpler. You want to add a line of code? Add the line. Click run again. You want to write a function? Write a function. You want to do asynchronous programming? Promises aren't that mysterious now that there's await/async. It's all within reach.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#289

Post by ryacko »

jriot wrote: post #278
htor wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do it and re-discover the art of getting lost!

And how to navigate a city on your own.

I grew up in the intermediate period between widespread desktops and finally getting a smartphone.

I just wrote down Google Maps directions and the general description of places I needed to turn on a piece of paper.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#290

Post by ryacko »

anigbrowl wrote: post #172
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids have it too easy today, they don't have to work very hard to get decent computing experiences, and its not like they have to do any programming at all to have fun. It is also super easy to get addicted to just consuming all the time. It is quite depressing. My kid is still a toddler, but I think I might put a stripped down CLI-only computer in his room when he reaches 5 so he can at least play with it if he want…

Kids like you had it way too easy. When I was young you had to solder your own components together to make a calculator. Kids like me had it way too easy. When they were young they had to look things up in log tables and use slide rules. Etc. back to hunting wild beasts and digging vegetables out of the frozen ground

I think the issue is learning by tactile experience.
Post reply on HN