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Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#261

Post by klez »

excalibur wrote: post #230
JacobJans wrote: post #178

This post reminds me of a running line of thought that's been going on in my head for quite some time: "Single Purpose Devices." The main disadvantage of most computing devices is that they offer too many options; making them mentally unwieldy. A "single purpose device" is created to support just one purpose. The Kindle is perhaps the most famous example; it practically created an industry. Sure, it can do more than…

Dumb phone -> Talk and text, no camera, no browser, cheap and readily available. Please?

I recently bought one for like 14€. In a supermarket. Calls, SMSs and little more.

Are you lamenting the fact that there's no such thing or that it's not more widespread?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#262

Post by excalibur »

klez wrote: post #261
excalibur wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb phone -> Talk and text, no camera, no browser, cheap and readily available. Please?

I recently bought one for like 14€. In a supermarket. Calls, SMSs and little more. Are you lamenting the fact that there's no such thing or that it's not more widespread?

The second one. In the US they're a little hard to come by. Sure you can order something online. (There's a whole niche market of tiny dumbphones that don't claim to be made for prisoners, but are designed to be easily smuggled inside body cavities.) But their retail presence here is almost nonexistent.

Also, it's much more difficult to find one if you insist on a particular carrier. For example, the popular line of Blu dumbphones (which still have cameras) operate on 2G-only GSM, and don't work with Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, or Boost (i.e. all of the major providers). You have to use something like StraightTalk or Simple Mobile (i.e. prepaid discount service, similar to Tracfone) to make them go.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#263

Post by danilocesar »

When I was a kid there was a program called "MultimediaFusion".

It was a drag'n'drop with some pre-defined elements and included a visual logical editor to define how objects behave (if then do that). I used a lot, I had no one to help with instructions, no internet, i didn't even know english at that time but I was able to write some games (bricks/arcanoid clone, space invaders clone, etc).

I believe something like that would be a good way to teach pretty basic programming logic (no complex code).

But this was almost 20 years ago... I'm pretty sure there's something better (and OSS) today.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#265

Post by htor »

drngdds wrote: post #257
excalibur wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb phone -> Talk and text, no camera, no browser, cheap and readily available. Please?

I really like the idea of ditching my smartphone for a dumbphone, but giving up Google Maps would be rough. Knowing the fastest way to get from point A to point B (including public transportation!) is genuinely really useful.

do it and re-discover the art of getting lost!

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#266

Post by Impossible »

jpfed wrote: post #234
Impossible wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these are explicit design choices, for example a fixed palette is important to give games a "Pico-8" look and also reduce decisions regarding color choice. I suggest you watch Joseph White's practice talk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87jfTIWosBw ) if you're curious about design decisions that guided Pico-8. Multiple resolutions would absolutely break the "Fantasy console" feel of Pico-8, even though I und…

>All of these are explicit design choices, for example a fixed palette is important to give games a "Pico-8" look and also reduce decisions regarding color choice. Indeed, which is why they won't change, which is why (for me) an alternative like TIC-80 is preferable to waiting around for Pico-8 to become what I wish it were. The virtual console space is tantalizing, but the culture around it has different tastes from…

> I also totally understand why virtual consoles almost all use BASIC or lua, but (for me, not for my kids) I wish there were an option with static types. The combination of not being able to see much code on the screen at once plus no static type checking is pretty uncomfortable for me

At some point the question becomes why not just use Unity, BFXR, Bosca Ceoil and ASE Sprite if you want no constraints and better tools with a similar Pico-8-ish aesthetic? That question is outside of the scope of the original post, but as I piece together your ideal fantasy console, it seems like not really a fantasy console but a simple general purpose game IDE with a statically typed language.

Edit: Btw, if what you want is a simple general purpose game IDE with a statically typed language that is somewhere in-between Unity and Pico-8 I suggest you make it or at least spec out your needs more formally! I'm definitely a fan of more people making game creation tools (and software development tools in general) that fit their needs\use cases.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#268

Post by muxator »

I learnt event-driven programming, OOP and GUI toolkits architecture studying a "borrowed" Pascal Turbo Vision manual that nobody in my high school was using.

Later on I wanted to mess around with VGA mode X and direct memory access, but there was no internet at the time, and I had no books. So I just tried and tried, until it eventually worked.

In a way, being limited to just a few sources of high quality information forced the young me to learn how to study them in deep. This was helpful because it gave the foundations and the method, and made it possible to explore unknown fields without guidance.

Now that I wrote it down, I realized that this journey was so satisfying that it continues, in other forms, to the present day.

I would not be surprised if the OP was moved by a similar desire to offer this kind of experience to kids. If so, I definitely can understand why.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#269

Post by knicholes »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #152
mixmastamyk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the leading space is important and editors take care of it when you hit the tab key.

Or just use a language that doesn’t have that problem, then you don’t need a magic editor.

If a kid can understand a for loop, I think the kid should be able to understand indentation.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#270

Post by peatmoss »

KirinDave wrote: post #50

Power-on-to-basic is gone in the world of more sophisticated hardware and power management. But! You can always alter a homebuilt hardware to boot into the next best thing: DrRacket. Just modify the init scripts to go right into this: https://racket-lang.org/ Grab a copy of "the little schemer" and let them go. And when they're through that, then you can unlock the rest of the computer. As for the hardware, I have re…

There’s also Realm of Racket which uses games to teach.
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