391–400 of 508 posts
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It's division of labor. The owner pays for the employee to show up and make the store look open. You pay for the service actually rendered.
Thanks, then I'll bring my own waiter.
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I don't understand how "_hella_ expected to tip" translates to "you ought to tip". Further, I don't understand why I should take seriously the ethical claim that "one should tip service workers". Why? Why shouldn't we expect the business owner to properly price goods and services such that what I pay reflects the true cost of the labor performed? From where does my ethical commitment to an individual based solely on…
Because you know before you partake of the service what the expectations and the normed obligations are, and if you defect by availing yourself of the service and not tipping, you're just harming the worker.
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Because you know before you partake of the service what the expectations and the normed obligations are, and if you defect by availing yourself of the service and not tipping, you're just harming the worker.
"Industrywide, about a third of hotel guests leave tips for housekeepers." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/business/hotel-housekeepe...
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I agree with the tenor of your post but there has been tipping creep. A line must be drawn! It wasn't too long ago that coffee shops did not have tips. I'm old enough that it's been ingrained into me that I don't need to tip if I'm placing the order and waiting for it to be fulfilled. I don't tip in fast food places and I certainly never tip in coffee shops.
You might be older than I am (I'm in my early 40s) but there has never been a time when I went to coffee shops where tipping was unusual. Is it possible you just didn't notice? The cue was "a glass jar full of cash" by the checkout". There might be tip creep (I doubt it), but coffee shops aren't, I don't think, part of it.
About the expectations, the good thing is they change fast. France had the same path, where tipping was strongly expected in cafes. In particular, as it was smallish amounts, people usually paid cash (or the cafe would just refuse credit cards below some fair amount) and it was easier to leave something on the table.
In a few years contactless became widely available, laws on obligation to take payments also became pervasive, and people paying a 2E coffee by card is not unusual anymore.
Numbers of tips have crashed [0] and the cafe owners are coming to terms with it. Anecdotaly amost places I saw baked the tip into final ticket as a “service fee”.
I think the same kind of mechanics will come at play most places. Why ask the customer for some random amount on a screen when everyone will be less awkward to just have it as a fixed line item in the receipt ?
[0] https://www.lemonde.fr/m-actu/article/2017/08/30/et-le-pourb...
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Higher tipping expectations are generally matched by higher discounts on the pre-tip price. So there is no limit, and that's not itself an issue.
This NEVER happens from a economic incentive standpoint. Restaurant owners NEVER say "Oh look, expectation for tipping in the general public is up 5% this year, let's cut down our menu prices to balance this out." I don't know what logic is behind your statement - could you please elaborate?
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I guess I see the point. But why not just tip? The coffee shop tip is like, a buck. The regulars at the coffee shop were already tipping, like, a buck every time they got coffee. The countervailing force the iPad is addressing is the fact that customers aren't carrying cash anymore. Without the prompt, counter workers aren't going to get tipped at all.
>I guess I see the point. But why not just tip? The coffee shop tip is like, a buck. For the reason I already gave: you can't seriously expect everyone to accede to every demand for paying 20% more. That's not an actual, practical decision theory. "I can afford 80 cents" isn't responsive.
Then they came for the 20% at Ruth's Chris, and I did not speak out, for I had gotten tipsy on cabernet.
Then they came for the 20% at Olive Garden, and I did not speak out, for I thought the server was attractive.
Then they came for the 20% at Intelligentsia, and I did not speak out, for the creeping norm of paying 20% had been established.
They they came for 20% of my internal organs --- and there was nobody left to speak for me.
Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…
Edit: Also delivery although that is questionable with businesses that charge delivery fees whether or not they go to the driver.
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What you've described is a state crime, a federal crime, and a violation of several different state and federal labor laws. Easily a dime worth of prison time, plus criminal fines, plus civil penalties, plus having to pay out the stolen tips to your employees with treble damages for the intentional tort you've comitted. Not really worth it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the calculus is so bad that it's extrem…
It happens all the time. Connie Schultz won a Pulitzer for writing about this, among other things: https://www.pulitzer.org/winners/connie-schultz I can understand why you might think it never happens if you are completely ignorant of the facts on the ground but nevertheless familiar with the criminal and civil sanctions involved. It's about lack of enforcement.
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If there's anything I've learned through a decade of browsing Reddit, there's nothing to be gained on a discussion revolving around tipping. Feelings will be hurt, people will talk over each other, and no one goes on doing anything different than they did before. Might as well as be debating tabs vs. spaces while we're at it.
I thought it was pretty clear spaces are better?
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Another way to look at it is that tipping lubricates the market pricing interface between customers and vendors. If they didn't allow tipping, restaurants would charge more to make up the difference (margins in service work are almost always very low). In a tipping system, when things are going well, everyone tips; if things aren't going so well, not so much. There's some wiggle room between the list price and the ac…
> If they didn't allow tipping, restaurants would charge more to make up the difference (margins in service work are almost always very low). Neither good nor bad. > In a tipping system, when things are going well, everyone tips; if things aren't going so well, not so much. There's some wiggle room between the list price and the actual price, which might offset price stickiness. That's terrible! Instead of the burden…
The market is efficient... eventually.