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You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

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Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#291

Post by telchar »

late2part wrote: post #134
telchar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to claim to be principled about this then you should inform the waitstaff at the start of the interaction that you don't intend to tip. The price they ask has expectation of tip built in implicitly - failing to disclose that you won't tip is therefore a lie of omission. I hope you're not that sort of person.

2 thoughts. #1 - I feel you are assuming requirements about the optionality of tipping. The gratuity is optional for whatever reason, regardless of social expectations. So in my opinion one can be moral and ethical without disclosing why they don't tip. #2 - I waited tables, and a very good waiter once told me that he gives every table the same service whether they do or don't tip, and no matter how much they tip. I…

You're right that the gratuity is optional, but there is still a strong general expectation that most people will tip. The optionality gives the tipper discretion in any specific situation, not an indefinite free ride with no social consequences. The server wouldn't work for $2.13/hr (presumably) without the expectation, so by never tipping the GP is freeloading on the other customers.

Likewise there is an expectation of good service from waitstaff, but they're not obligated to give good service. They too have the option of giving better or worse service at their discretion. So if a server wants to give everyone equal service that's their right. But if I want to develop a reputation as a good tipper to get my service prioritized over GP by servers who differentiate then that's ok too, and rational I think.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#292

Post by threatofrain »

whorleater wrote: post #271
EpicEng wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>employers will often slowly push you out by only offering you unfavorable shifts, or outright fire you in states with poor labor protections. In other words; if you're bad at your job, you probably won't have it for very long. Yeah, well no crap.

This is a weird just world view though, because tips are a lagging indicator of job performance more than anything. If you accept the notion that you get tipped less because you are a poor job performer, what is the point of laws that force employers to make up your wages to minimum wage?

I view the policy which "forces" employers to makeup the differences in pay as the same one that permits them to underpay workers. Perhaps the point in net is the exploitation of the working class in restaurants.

One must question why a subset of the food service industry should be treated so differently than any other. Is the McDonalds restaurant worker (who gets no tip) just doing so well that they don't deserve the same consideration from the public as someone working in a ramen shop? Or does that employee face a different commute and living situation? The delineation is strange.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#293

Post by falcolas »

jasode wrote: post #240
tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

> US tipping is not complicated. [...] just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. Well, it's been too complicated for me because the comments in this thread show I've been doing it wrong. For example, I sometimes picked up "to go" orders from Chili's restaurant[1]. In my mind, if I sat down to eat, I tipped the server. On the other hand, if I phoned in an order and picked it up, I didn't tip . Yes, I noticed that…

Let's complicate things more. Sometimes the tips are split between the front and back of the house, so not tipping on takeout is still impacting service worker's income.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#294

Post by gmjoe »

I think a lot of the frustration isn't from tipping... it's from tip creep.

To many people, tipping feels like an unfair relic of the past that can be associated with negatives like racism (servers of color receiving less), pay disparity (why do underpaid servers get to benefit from tips but not underpaid line cooks), etc.

At least here in NYC there's been a growing movement of "tip included" restaurants and coffee shops, which feels like social progress.

But when my bakery added a prominent tip jar (not even a cafe!), when Uber added a reminder about tipping after each ride -- it can feel like society moving backwards.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#295

Post by ilovetux »

I've worked in food service for many years. I worked in kitchens for many years and I have to say I hate tips! Now-a-days I'm more fortunate and don't work in kitchens anymore. My biggest problems with tips is when I'm making (for example) $10/hour and I see the waitstaff counting out the hundreds of dollars in tips they got that night when I get $400/wk minus taxes.

It is disparaging that one's performance while working in a kitchen is not only not rewarded, but the reward for good kitchen performance is actually given to the waitstaff.

Just to be clear, I do tip. I usually just go with $5, $10, $15 or $20. If the order is really large I might do the math just to make sure I'm in the ballpark. If the food is particularly good, I will send a $20 back "to the chef".

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#296

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

[deleted]

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#297

Post by [deleted] »

skrebbel wrote: post #14
Simulacra wrote: post #5

I don't feel guilt when they swivel that ipad around, more like annoyance. When I'm asked to tip for someone handing me a cup of coffee, I say no tip. We should really be pushing to get away from this relic of slavery, and don't tip unless it's absolutely clear we need to; i.e. at a sit down restaurant.

How is tipping at a sit down restaurant not a relic of slavery? The idea that restaurant personnel earn so little that they need to live on tips is barbarous.

[deleted]

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#298

Post by rifung »

jasode wrote: post #240
tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

> US tipping is not complicated. [...] just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. Well, it's been too complicated for me because the comments in this thread show I've been doing it wrong. For example, I sometimes picked up "to go" orders from Chili's restaurant[1]. In my mind, if I sat down to eat, I tipped the server. On the other hand, if I phoned in an order and picked it up, I didn't tip . Yes, I noticed that…

I also used to not tip on takeout orders for the same reason until someone who used to work at a restaurant told me I should.

The explanation made sense to me though: The same waiter that waits tables has to package your food for you. Obviously it doesn't take as much of their time as people who sit down to eat so you tip less, but you're still using their time that would otherwise have been spent on people sitting at the restaurant.

Of course I wish we could just get rid of tipping by increasing the costs of the goods and paying them higher.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#299

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #282
tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

>A very easy, relatively pleasant way to get through life in the US if you're well-off enough that you routinely buy coffee in expensive coffee shops: just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. You never have to figure anything out, and sometimes people really appreciate it. This echoes the sentiment that 'if you can't afford to pay a X% tip, you can't afford to buy the product'. Problem is that it seems to keep g…

Tips shouldn't be expected if you're on regular minimum wage rather than the tipped wage.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#300

Post by technofiend »

tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

I agree waiters and waitresses have set expectations because you're indeed sharing the cost of employing them. However it's not clear to me if the manager at is paying the guy running a cash register $2-$3/hr and expecting tips to make up the balance or not. Running a register and handing people their order from behind a counter are not traditionally roles that expect or receive tips.
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