Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 508 posts

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#221

Post by adrianmonk »

jjuhl wrote: post #17

No guilt. No tip. Never. If they want more than the listed price they should raise the listed price. Social customs/expectations/guilt/whatever be damned. I never tip. Never have, never will.

I'm not a fan of tipping either, but because the convention is clear and essentially universal, the waiter has a completely reasonable expectation that you will tip unless there is a problem.

If you go into the situation intending from the beginning not to follow this convention but receiving the benefits of it, then you are not acting in good faith. You are, through nonverbal communication, misleading the waiter.

Consent should matter when two parties enter into a transaction, and it should be informed consent. If you think what you're doing right now meets that standard, then next time try telling the waiter at the beginning that there will be no tip, and see if it makes a difference.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#222

Post by mikeash »

awalton wrote: post #168
mikeash wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers have to make up the difference if tipped employees don't make enough tips to meet the minimum wage. However, minimum wage is often not a living wage.

> Employers have to make up the difference if tipped employees don't make enough tips to meet the minimum wage This is not true in all states. Kentucky has no provision for this, e.g. (I worked in restaurants through college, so I have hands on experience here.)

It’s federal law: https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htm

Maybe it was different when you were in college?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#223

Post by SilasX »

tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

I'm not sure that's a relevant point to make in the context of this article, because there's widespread disagreement (leaning toward "no") on whether tipping for that muffin is required in the sense that a tip for dining-with-table-service is. A guaranteed 20% for a coffee shop muffin at the counter is definitely not expected.

Or were you just intending a pre-emptive general critique of the three people who might use this story to advocate tipping 0% for table service? I think that might merit waiting for the one thread it happens in.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#224

Post by justfor1comment »

PunchTornado wrote: post #152

So you walk into a place, you say you want a muffin, they hand it to you and expect a 20% tip for that? Like wtf?! US is weird.

There are also restaurants in the US where the tip is optional or mandatory depending on the party size. If you and 2 other friends go to a restaurant, tipping is optional and you can decide the percentage. If you and 5 other friends go to a restaurant, tipping is mandatory and fixed at ~20%. And people wonder why I am asocial.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#225

Post by gamblor956 »

i88y6 wrote: post #203
gamblor956 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my neck of the woods, servers make $12/hour. Before tips, because LA no longer lets restaurants rely on tips for wages. (And that's increasing to $15/hour by 2020). So unless service is really good, I default to 10%. And quite frankly, it's disgusting that the person who spends may 30 seconds providing service gets X% of the bill when 99% of the work is done in the kitchen by guys who don't get paid anything extra…

> it's disgusting that the person who spends may 30 seconds providing service gets X% of the bill Yikes,wait till you find out how much the ACH and CC networks get for providing a fully automated service.

ACH and CC networks shoulder the burden of maintaining the system, fraud checks, chargebacks, etc. They provide a convenience function that lets me avoid having to carry cash around everyone, and lets the vendor minimize their cash-related costs. It's all worth the 2-5% they charge (and if you're paying more than that you've got bad negotiating skills). Cash isn't cheap--after security-related expenses, it costs just as much if not more than accepting credit cards, but the expenses aren't as easily traced back to individual transactions.

A guy bringing me a plate someone else cooked has not earned 20% of the bill.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#226

Post by goerz »

paxys wrote: post #60
frereubu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the heart of it for me. If I tip cash, even if the tip jar is next to the register I always make a point of going back to tip at the end of my drink / food if the experience was good. A digital version should be some kind of contactless payment point at the door where you can easily set a tip amount and tap your phone / card.

Or just adjust your payment after the fact, like Uber and Lyft. It would be pretty easy for Square to implement this.

Since we're talking about coffee shops: the Starbucks app allows to add a tip for a certain period of time after a a mobile order (something like an hour)

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#227

Post by geggam »

SilasX wrote: post #223
tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

I'm not sure that's a relevant point to make in the context of this article, because there's widespread disagreement (leaning toward "no") on whether tipping for that muffin is required in the sense that a tip for dining-with-table-service is. A guaranteed 20% for a coffee shop muffin at the counter is definitely not expected. Or were you just intending a pre-emptive general critique of the three people who might use…

Just say No.

We can recycle that old campaign and put it to good use.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#228

Post by tastyfreeze »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #36
Simulacra wrote: post #5

I don't feel guilt when they swivel that ipad around, more like annoyance. When I'm asked to tip for someone handing me a cup of coffee, I say no tip. We should really be pushing to get away from this relic of slavery, and don't tip unless it's absolutely clear we need to; i.e. at a sit down restaurant.

Ouch, having worked in cafes and restaurants as an undergrad I pretty much always tip 20%. Is it absurd? Of course, but given how badly most waitstaff are paid, the idea that you will somehow eliminate the practice by stiffing a few barristas seems both sadistic and highly unlikely to change the world. Until robots hand me muffins, I accept it as a tax on eating out.

As somebody from a state with a high minimum cash wage I am astounded that servers still expect 15-20% tip because of the cultural influence from states that have a cash wage set at federal minimum. I am curious how you feel about tipping 20% to a server you know is making $9-15/hr.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#229

Post by tareqak »

tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

I blindly tip 20% at restaurants irrespective if I sit down, buy take out, or have something delivered with one exception: if I buy take out, but I am just buying drinks that I took out from the fridge, then I don't tip at all.

My hope is that there will be sufficient political and societal will to expect employers to pay their employees a comfortable wage, and for everyone irrespective of whether or not they are an employer, employee, or self-employed to pay 100% of the taxes they owe without resorting to de jure or de facto loopholes or having an unreasonably high tax burden.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#230

Post by EpicEng »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #181
EpicEng wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes to the workers though. Are you claiming that the owners are not distributing them back?

Are they? Why do you expect they do?

>Why do you expect they do?

Because they almost always do and it's illegal for the owners to keep it?

Post reply on HN