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Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

antipolygraph.org

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Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#81

Post by [deleted] »

maxxxxx wrote: post #67
kodablah wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have quit jobs for less, but I suppose nobody can have an opinion on what they'd quit over (or over and over) without being in exactly that situation. You know what's easier than saying what you'd do in a situation? Discounting what someone else might do by putting qualifiers on their ability to even say it.

You wrote " I can't even sympathize with someone so willing to grab their ankles." I still think your attitude is very arrogant. Maybe one day you will be in a situation where you can't just quit and find anther job easily. This may help you learn to have more empathy with others who are in a less privileged position than you are.

[deleted]

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#82

Post by AndyMcConachie »

I just finished reading Deadly Deciepts by Ralph McGehee and this basically aligns well with how he describes the CIA. It's his memoirs of spending 25 years in the CIA and the bureaucratic shit show of a government job that it is. It would likely make a good comedy if they weren't responsible for so much pain and misery in the world.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#83

Post by DoctorOetker »

Kenji wrote: post #80
DoctorOetker wrote: post #79

>Similarly, I urge my children to steer clear of any job that requires a polygraph. That rules out entire professions: National Security, Intelligence, Law Enforcement, Customs and Border Protection, and Pharmacy. Pharmacists need to take polygraphs? I never thought about that. Is this to prevent pharmacists from dealing drugs? Is this a strictly US thing, or doe pharmacists in say Europe also take quasi routine poly…

I think polygraphs are an American thing in general. In Central Europe you literally never hear about them. I think the population believes they are bogus, so they're unpopular.

I would hope this is true. But sadly I am not so sure:

I live in Ghent, Belgium, a developed Western European nation. You can look up a lot of debate by googling "paragnost politie" and you will see results from Belgium, Netherlands, ... basically psychics, mediums and hypnotists working for / with the police.

I think it was about 10 years ago (very rough guess) when I read in an article that the local police (perhaps just Ghent, perhaps nationwide) fired the last paragnosts. In the mean while perhaps they still don't use them, perhaps they have reverted back to using them...

Intelligence and superstition form a very bad couple...

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#84

Post by grkvlt »

icebraining wrote: post #33
kodablah wrote: post #19

Maybe it is how it's written, but this person's entire career reads like a rat navigating through a maze built by superiors. Even though they say the job is among the happiest times of their life, it helps put into perspective the follower mentality some have, especially in the public sector. I'd have given the middle finger right away knowing I can find enjoyable work sans harassment. To put it crudely, I can't even…

How does "leverage" get you a job in Intelligence without passing a poly?

By leveraging the fact that one is a UK citizen, and applying to SIS or GCHQ, I assume? Most other countries perform in-depth background checks, rather than relying on pseudo-science, when it comes to matters of national security.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#85

Post by skybrian »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #9
ilaksh wrote: post #2

I had a contract doing a WebGL 3D space sim and graphing thing for a guy who was then going to recruit me to apply the technology for military applications. They wanted a browser-based simulator. But he told me that the application process in order to get clearance would involve a nasty investigation questioning everyone who knew me about all kinds of personal things. It seemed like a fun project that would pay decen…

I get why people think they should/could object to war and think choosing projects is enough. If you work on OSS, you're contributing to the military industrial complex indirectly. If you pay your taxes, yes, you pay for schools, but you're also paying for an intelligence system and armed contingent within your country. Most HNers are contributing to NATO. The Internet started life as a DARPA project in order to coor…

I agree that open source code can be used for purposes you don't like. By using an open source license, you give up control. (But should you retain that sort of control over everything you do? I'm unconvinced.)

I don't believe that ethical thinking has to be all or nothing. Not taking some projects makes them a bit harder and more expensive to recruit for and helps you sleep better at night, if that's the sort of thing that bothers you. Not paying your taxes is something you can go to jail for, which seems like a bad trade.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#86

Post by ganoushoreilly »

grkvlt wrote: post #84
icebraining wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does "leverage" get you a job in Intelligence without passing a poly?

By leveraging the fact that one is a UK citizen, and applying to SIS or GCHQ, I assume? Most other countries perform in-depth background checks, rather than relying on pseudo-science, when it comes to matters of national security.

The background investigations are still performed, the poly is an additional layer added on, so that's the only real formal difference between countries.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#87

Post by ganoushoreilly »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #41
csense wrote: post #3

If they know polygraph doesn't work, why do they still do it?

It doesn't work for objectively detecting dishonesty . That part is myth and theater. However, it does work as a way of directing an interrogation so as to maximize anxiety (since anxiety is more or less what the polygraph actually measures).

It also backfires often on those that take medications designed to reduce anxiety or ptsd. It's a stupid practice that's not even recognized in courts.

It's funny how people will mock scientology and their emeter and then look at this and say it's normal.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#88

Post by defen »

crististm wrote: post #17
polythrowaway wrote: post #10

I was a team leader at a USSOCOM unit and had to take a poly to be read into a couple of three-letter agency programs. In the middle of the test, the smug 23 year old fresh college grad administering the thing tells me I'm being deceptive and obviously support jihadi terrorism. This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment. I've never wanted to so violently break someone's face as right then in that moment…

I hate it when people do this. What's the better comeback/reaction to this frame? (apparently, my verbalized fuck-off, tamed or not, is not the best approach)

"Wow, you're really bad at this!"

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#89

Post by forapurpose »

iooi wrote: post #55
forapurpose wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment Unfortunately, people with far better credentials have been traitors and spies. Kim Philby, Aldrich Ames, and Robert Hanssen come to mind. IIRC, at least one was even given a pass on his polygraph test because of his credentials. Recently, Michael Flynn was a Lt General, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and National Security Advisor (to be clear, he i…

Yeah, and they were all caught during their polygraph interrogations right?

As I said, I believe Ames or Hanssen was, but the subject was given a pass because of his credentials.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#90

Post by acjohnson55 »

iooi wrote: post #54
ergothus wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a reasonable hoop to jump through and what is unreasonable is very subjective. Consider...on the east coast, interview suits are the norm. Even for a coding job where you will never wear a suit, it is reasonable to wonder why a candidate refused to wear a suit for an interview. West coast, though, the reverse is true. I had quite the culture shock coming from a govt job on the east coast to a Seattle coding j…

In NYC it's absolutely not expected or normal to wear a suit for a software engineering interview.

Yeah, in most places, it would mark you as earnest, at best, and naive, at worst.
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