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Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

qz.com

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Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#111

Post by jackvalentine »

dsamarin wrote: post #91
k_sze wrote: post #89

And this is why engineers have invented the dead man's switch a long time ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man%27s_switch The basic idea is that the switch can only be maintained in a non-braking state by an alert, not-incapacitated person. If you press too hard, it brakes; if you don't press hard enough, it brakes. You have to apply just enough force, and that's something only an alert person can do. Clearly,…

How do you expect a driver to maintain a dead man's switch the entire time they are driving in manual mode? Or conversely, suppose the switch must be maintained while the car is in autonomous mode, should the car pull over and stop on the side of the freeway? In terms of user experience I would expect the car to continue to the destination. The commenter discussing the use of sensors to detect the state of the driver…

> In terms of user experience I would expect the car to continue to the destination.

For a production car, sure. But these are test drivers in test cars.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#112

Post by jacksmith21006 »

briandear wrote: post #34
kalleboo wrote: post #9

It's so sad how these companies are spending billions on developing this technology and then still cheap out on the test drivers by having them drive solo and for too long hours (and presumably at minimum wage)

What wage are they paying? What’s so sad is when people make assumptions about things about which they clearly don’t have a grasp of the facts.

$20 an hour. USD.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#113

Post by village-idiot »

sangnoir wrote: post #109
village-idiot wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. But letting their manual operators fall asleep and trigger it is not good at all.

Letting a developer drop the production database[1] is not good either, but trusting a person to do their job correctly is baked into every organization and level. Still, accidents happen - there is no fool-proof way to stop humans from behaviours that are ultimately harmful. Elaborate systems will have elaborate loopholes. 1. https://about.gitlab.com/2017/02/01/gitlab-dot-com-database-...

For certain you cannot prevent all accidents, and I am not trying to say that we can/should.

I think having a sole operator in a prototype vehicle drastically increases the odds of these accidents, and that companies like Waymo should run them with two operators and some drowsiness detection systems (which are common on luxury cars). That’s a relatively simple fix.

It’s important that testing with multi ton moving vehicles be handled with far more cars than most production databases are, speaking to your metaphor. The consequences of mistakes is much much higher with cars than it is with most databases.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#114

Post by erezyehuda »

garmaine wrote: post #105
Aeolun wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A safe stop on the highway?

A "safe stop on the high way" means the side of the road in normal everyday context. That would be appropriate here, no? Highway patrol would check out the car pretty quickly.

Getting to the side of the road seems like it could be pretty risky for current autopilots, though perhaps things are further ahead than I know.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#116

Post by erezyehuda »

andrewflnr wrote: post #107
Aeolun wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A safe stop on the highway?

Under the circumstances, I'd accept just slowly rolling to a stop with the hazard lights on. People behind the car will hate it, but probably no one will die.

Sadly, I can still imagine someone crashing into a static car on the highway. I can imagine normal-speed continuation, mid-lane stopping, and attempting to navigate to the side of the road all seem to have some pretty heavy risks. I do wonder if a low-speed continuation would be in any way suitable.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#117

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

feefie wrote: post #90

On 26 Sep. 1982 in 'Knight of the Phoenix' when Michael falls asleep KITT automatically takes over. Google should have a camera pointing at the driver and use machine learning to detect someone that is asleep or medically impaired and automatically take over if the car starts to leave its lane. Perhaps the driver could configure where it wants the car to go in such a case (if asleep: continue to final destination; if…

Wow but that's overengineered. Just put a dead-man switch in the steering wheel.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#118

Post by anoncoward111 »

stephengillie wrote: post #85
berbec wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wake up jolt needs to apply 240v to the backside of the driver.

So long as it's milliamps, it should be okay.

Preferably into the buttcheek and not the thorassic spine

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#119

Post by anoncoward111 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #54
loceng wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does make me wonder what screening for test drivers they use.

They call up a temp agency and say "we need X people who have a valid driver's license, a pulse and can piss clean"

Which is incredibly hilarious because surely it shouldn't be too hard to find a volunteer engineer to drive the thing they coded.

Surely?

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#120

Post by icebraining »

dekhn wrote: post #110
icebraining wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo agrees with you, that's why their custom prototype car (the Firefly) didn't even have a steering wheel.

The Firefly was a joke. They had to install steering wheels shortly after getting them. The vehicles saw very little use.

I disagree it was a "joke"; I'd say it was a concept car - their vision of the future. They need steering wheels because they're still testing them, but the Firefly is the goal.
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