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Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

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Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#101

Post by dev_dull »

wtallis wrote: post #73
robotrout wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will support any system that insures that all voters have verified citizenship.

At what cost? Are you interested in ensuring that additional voting restrictions actually prevent more illegal votes than they prevent legitimate votes? What makes you think the base rate of non-citizen voting is even high enough to be a problem that can be addressed without invariably causing more harm than good?

Integrity of our system is important. It doesn’t need to be a partisan issue.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#102

Post by alphakappa »

tjoff wrote: post #90
bluGill wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually a bad idea: The reason for in person voting is poll monitors there are watching to make sure nobody knows how you voted. There are have been cases of "vote for me or I'll break your legs". When you vote from home someone can come by and watch you mail your vote the "correct" way in.

At least in Sweden you can still go to vote on vote day even if you mailed in your vote earlier. The physical vote will override the mail vote (if both exist).

Can't you do that in the US via a provisional ballot on the day-of?

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#103

Post by dev_dull »

cmurf wrote: post #96
robotrout wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure their friendly neighborhood community organizer will charter a bus for them to get their ID cards. If they're citizens, there will be somebody who wants their vote badly enough to walk them through that process and even buy them a sandwich for their trouble. Let's join the rest of the world and make sure that the people voting in our elections are citizens. Community organizers have proven to be extremely ef…

It's in the realm of tinfoil hat and freakishly paranoid conspiracy theories that there's any meaningful amount of non-citizens voting. Feel free to design a system that meets the John Rawl's "veil of ignorance" thought experiment, such that the burden of obtaining such ID is equal among all. What would that really look like? If Joe Bob has to take 2 hours off work, without pay, to get ID, how do you get a Warren Buf…

Obtaining an ID card can be as easy or as painful as our local governments decide it to be. Amazing, it’s the most painful I have ever experience here in California where the DMV borders on insanity. I would think such a progressive state would care more about the burden it places on its citizens than on maintaining tight control over the process but such is California.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#104

Post by sgc »

nickik wrote: post #65
jerf wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better to worry about these things before they are problems. I don't know if it's happened in the US but it is absolutely a very common attack against voting systems, and any voting system not resistant to it should be considered suspect.

Switzerland, one of the most democratic places in the world has done this for a very lomg time. While im theory its relevant a practical issue has never happened once as far as I can remember. Going to hugly distributed areas to beat all voters up seems like a terrible attack vector. So maybe in some places it could be a problem but I dont see it as much of a problem in a modern First World Democracy.

There are definitely smaller countries in Europe where parties have purchased the election by giving money door to door. I know it happened in Albania, along with threats of family members losing their jobs, etc. And they did lose their jobs once the election was over. There were threats to private sector employers if they didn't cooperate, etc.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#105

Post by InitialLastName »

slg wrote: post #12
dev_dull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or note, requiring ID to vote in the United States is considered controversial.

Because citizens are not required to have ID and those that don't have one are disproportionately racial minorities and/or in lower socioeconomic classes. Democrats would be much more willing to allow ID to be required to vote if there was a national ID card issued to every citizen, but Republicans would be against any system that would try to create a national ID.

Yes, the core irony that the same people:

a) Want to make having an ID as a prerequisite for voting

and

b) Are deeply against any form of national ID card (or anything else that makes it cheap and easy to get an ID)

It's almost (almost) like they want to prevent poor people from cities (who don't need cars) from voting.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#106

Post by Broken_Hippo »

bluGill wrote: post #44
BatFastard wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elections are held on Tuesday as a way of restricting who can vote PERIOD. Poorer voters have a harder time getting off work, and getting transportation to voting site, which is usually close to their home, but not their work.

The law required you be given enough time off to vote, or you be given advance notice to get an absentee ballot if they won't be close to home.

This isn't followed well enough to make it practical, though. If you aren't scheduled to begin work until 2 hours after the polls open, they say you have time. It doesn't matter if you cannot physically get to the voting booth, vote, and travel to work in the time given.

As far as absentee ballots are concerned, sometimes they are difficult to get. My mother had trouble getting one when she was pregnant - my sister was due around election day. She finally got it, luckily - because my sister was, indeed, born on election day.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#107

Post by [deleted] »

cobookman wrote: post #24
return-value wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it’s sent to your address. We do have a central registry of every citizen, so I guess that might scare some Americans. You don’t need that though, you could pick up your registration at any municipality with your ID. That’s how I vote, I work from before the voting starts to after it closes, so I vote via mail.

> We do have a central registry of every citizen, so I guess that might scare some Americans. US has same registry. It might not include every american but I'd be suprised if it doesn't have 99.99% of all Americans in it.

[deleted]

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#108

Post by Broken_Hippo »

logfromblammo wrote: post #100
bluGill wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Do you need to get to the polling place? I guess all gas station workers are exempt. As is everybody working for the various transit systems. Can you ensure nobody has a medical issue on a national holiday? Doctors, nurses, and hospital support staff are all working. This also brings on either the entire power grid, or someone in maintenance to watch the generators. Do you eat? All restaurants are exempt.…

This is already a solved problem. Wage workers can get paid for a multiple of their actual hours as a holiday differential. But in order to invoke that system, you do need to declare the holiday.

This!

And it has to be on-par with things like memorial day, labor day, thanksgiving and christmas... plus include primaries as well.

If it is similar to President's day or Veterens day, not only will folks still work, but they will usually get paid normal wages that day as well.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#109

Post by eftychis »

nickik wrote: post #63
vec wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Colorado. A couple of weeks before the midterms I'm going to get a packet in the mail containing my ballot, instructions for filling it out, a pamphlet where every candidate on the ballot gets a paragraph or two to make their case, and a prepaid return envelope. I fill out my ballot at my leisure, stuff it in the envelope, sign the envelope underneath the flap, and drop it in a mailbox. There's a receipt wi…

We do that in Switzerlamd as well. I have never voted by going to some place. Voter turnout is still not very high.

Hmm. I wonder why? Any ideas?

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#110

Post by robotrout »

wtallis wrote: post #73
robotrout wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will support any system that insures that all voters have verified citizenship.

At what cost? Are you interested in ensuring that additional voting restrictions actually prevent more illegal votes than they prevent legitimate votes? What makes you think the base rate of non-citizen voting is even high enough to be a problem that can be addressed without invariably causing more harm than good?

Do you believe your own rhetoric, or is it just reflex at this point?

Use paper ballots and voter id and we never have to have another discussion about voter fraud and election legitimacy. It is important that the people who should be part of the system actually believe in that system or it all breaks. There are many Americans (myself included) who feel that these things need to be addressed. This constant push back on an issue that is well accepted everywhere else on earth, which is that a voting process should be verified to only include eligible voters, is a bit transparent.

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