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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#821

Post by uxcolumbo »

joering2 wrote: post #812
uxcolumbo wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have shares and you only lose money if you decide to sell the shares now - price might recover if you hold on to them and if you believe in Tesla's mission and value you might even think it's a good time to buy some more. (This is not financial advice) But like I mentioned, I said he shouldn't have tweeted that message and should have consulted with his business partners first. I think he just wasn't thinking clear…

Sorry but I don't believe you own stocks... this just sounds too naive, like first advice any broker will give you NOT to do is to buy and keep for the sake of it: > I have shares and you only lose money if you decide to sell the shares now Many stocks went to near zero just to get de-listed next minute. Some of these fine folks that have played marked by your advice blew their head off in the process. Never assume s…

You're right - technically I don't own TSLA outright. I trade CFDs. I should have made that clearer - my bad.

And of course you have to set your stop losses - that's just common sense, no?

But TSLA is not near zero, so I'm holding the position I've got, because I believe that if Tesla can overcome this hurdle - the price will recover again, because the underlying long term value Tesla produces is immense in my opinion.

And that's my point - what Elon and his companies / teams are trying to achieve is game changing and a big value add to society.

And you did talk about more than one subject in your previous comment - which I've responded to.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#822

Post by AlexandrB »

anonytrary wrote: post #365
Animats wrote: post #246

He definitely lost it. And it's going to cost him. This is an open and shut case against Musk. He definitely sent out that tweet. Yes, maybe just not enough sleep and too many drugs. Not a good excuse. Tesla might do better with a new CEO. They're past the vision stage. Tesla's problems today are all those of running a big auto plant. Musk might do better focusing on Space-X.

Elon Musk has always had a disdain for the responsibility of running a public company, it seems perfectly reasonable that he tweet, in exasperation, that he wishes to make the company private. Why do so many people in this thread want the only guy making (rockets && green cars && batteries && solar && ...) to fail so badly? The guy smokes weed once on camera, now he's a witch and needs to be hunted down? We care abou…

> it seems perfectly reasonable that he tweet, in exasperation, that he wishes to make the company private.

He's the CEO. That doesn't just mean he gets paid a lot and can do whatever he wants. He also has responsibilities to his investors and potential investors such as accurately reporting on the financial situation of the company. If he doesn't want this responsibility and prefers the freedom to vent on Twitter he should step down. After all, one of the reasons CEOs are so well compensated is the additional responsibilities the job (supposedly) entails. You can't have it both ways.

Edit: It's not a witch hunt to hold someone accountable for their actions in a position of power. No one forced Elon Musk to tweet misleading information that could affect the stock price. Given how intelligent he is, he should know better.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#823

Post by DennisP »

hef19898 wrote: post #809
DennisP wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's really different about SpaceX is the cost of launch. Governments and their contractors are happy to launch your stuff into space for thousands of dollars per pound, but nobody was putting significant work into reusable rockets. Just a reusable first stage drops the cost by about 80%, and the BFR is supposed to take the cost down to about $50/lb once it's flying at high volume. That completely changes what we'r…

Refcently I stumbled over an article regarding SpaceX cost structure raising the theory that commercial launches are subsidized by government launches. Also that reusing stages is not such a relevant cost driver. I simply don't know enough about rocket technology and costs to actually judge the validity of these points, but they seemd plausible. As this point is coming up regularly I really have to take a deper look…

There's a reason we don't throw away a 747 after one flight.

Fuel is only a couple percent of the cost of a rocket launch. Rockets are expensive, and on the Falcon 9 the first stage is 80% of the cost of the rocket.

In the early days of SpaceX I saw claims that expendables were more economical because you could build them cheaper, but then SpaceX went and build reusable rockets that are also cheap; their rockets cost less than competitors even without reuse.

They're getting government business because they charge the government less than their competitors charge. The subsidy argument doesn't make sense unless it's only the commercial launches that are cheap.

There are a lot of vested interests in this industry that are strongly incentivized to say reusable rockets are no big deal. I think they'll continue to say that until the BFR flies and SpaceX drops their rates to levels far below what disposables could ever achieve.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#824

Post by darpa_escapee »

pvelagal wrote: post #635
MBCook wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana is illegal, federally.

Obama, the then Candidate, publicly admitted he "inhaled". People voted for him and made him the President. Elon on a show smoked once and explicitly said it is not productive and he never smokes weed at all. Some how it is a topic of discussion every where and he lost his mind and what not. Double standards !

It would be a double standard if Obama chose to broadcast illegal drug use to millions of people to score some internet points while holding a security clearance.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#825

Post by anthonybsd »

illumin8 wrote: post #477
anthonybsd wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla has pulled itself back from the brink and may actually become a profitable car company This is a very very generous assessment of the dire financial situation TSLA is in. At best they have hit their production at the expense of quality which will only temporarily offset their costs. Any sustainable mid-term profitability is a very big question mark at this point.

Tesla Model 3 is the most efficient and best quality electric vehicle I've seen. I've owned one for over 6 months now, and early on it was glitchy and needed a lot of software updates, but for the last 3 months it has been extremely rock solid stable, and I'm pretty certain this car will have great longevity. Not to mention, perfect 5 star ratings in safety from NHTSA. First, I don't like Autosteer (autopilot), as I…

Servicing cost for Model 3 is likely to be greater than any other car in the same price range: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/20/heres-what-7000-of-dama... . Sure, you might say "but, fewer things break!" on electric vehicles. In case of Tesla that might not be true either: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/business/Tesla-Owner-Frustra...

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#826

Post by AlexandrB »

not2b wrote: post #406

He was trying to bankrupt the short-sellers, and he was doing it by lying: the price would soar, their options would be called, and they'd lose their shirts, all for a lie. When you're head of a public company, that's a crime. Not only will the SEC come after him, but the short sellers can probably sue him too. I have huge respect for his engineering ability, but he has messed up badly. He's overextended and it seems…

> He's overextended and it seems his conduct lately shows that he's melting down from overwork.

I agree completely. Elon Musk is a remarkable person, but he's still human. He's ignoring the science around performance, mental health, and the need for rest at his own peril.

Edit: It's also an alarming sign that Elon Musk has not been able to solve this problem by finding people whose judgement he trusts to take on some of his responsibilities. Even Steve Jobs, someone who had a reportedly huge ego, was able to build a team he could entrust his legacy to.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#827

Post by hef19898 »

DennisP wrote: post #823
hef19898 wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refcently I stumbled over an article regarding SpaceX cost structure raising the theory that commercial launches are subsidized by government launches. Also that reusing stages is not such a relevant cost driver. I simply don't know enough about rocket technology and costs to actually judge the validity of these points, but they seemd plausible. As this point is coming up regularly I really have to take a deper look…

There's a reason we don't throw away a 747 after one flight. Fuel is only a couple percent of the cost of a rocket launch. Rockets are expensive, and on the Falcon 9 the first stage is 80% of the cost of the rocket. In the early days of SpaceX I saw claims that expendables were more economical because you could build them cheaper, but then SpaceX went and build reusable rockets that are also cheap; their rockets cost…

Well, one point made in the article I mentioned above was that thermal stress limits the life time of a reusable rocket. Plus the lost payload as you need fuel to land the rocket again. Also, and at least that part I can confirm, a missile is tube is not a lot more than a aluminium tube. So, there is my home work for the weekend: rocket science and LEO launch economics!

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#828

Post by dirkgently »

55555 wrote: post #669
dirkgently wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. Why? Because Elon is a special snowflake and deserves a different treatment than other white-collar criminals?

How about because nobody should be able to go from perfectly fine to having ruined their life* in under 30 seconds. you have one dumb thought, open twitter on your phone, push tweet, and it's over. That's not an ability people should have. We are impulsive and often dumb.

Like that guy Elon accused of being a pedophile in under 30 seconds?

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#829

Post by DennisP »

hef19898 wrote: post #827
DennisP wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason we don't throw away a 747 after one flight. Fuel is only a couple percent of the cost of a rocket launch. Rockets are expensive, and on the Falcon 9 the first stage is 80% of the cost of the rocket. In the early days of SpaceX I saw claims that expendables were more economical because you could build them cheaper, but then SpaceX went and build reusable rockets that are also cheap; their rockets cost…

Well, one point made in the article I mentioned above was that thermal stress limits the life time of a reusable rocket. Plus the lost payload as you need fuel to land the rocket again. Also, and at least that part I can confirm, a missile is tube is not a lot more than a aluminium tube. So, there is my home work for the weekend: rocket science and LEO launch economics!

There's also the rocket engine, which is a lot more than a tube. Disposables throw that away too. You can just look at the cost of the rocket to see how much expensive stuff is getting thrown away.

SpaceX does still use the Falcon 9 as a disposable for extra-heavy payloads. That doesn't mean you have to throw your rocket away for all payloads, and the capacity difference isn't dramatic. And there won't be that many payloads too big for the BFR in reusable mode.

It's true that the rocket wears out eventually. SpaceX is aiming for about ten reuses initially, thus lowering hardware costs by 90%. They hope to do much better than that later.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#830

Post by toast0 »

55555 wrote: post #669
dirkgently wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. Why? Because Elon is a special snowflake and deserves a different treatment than other white-collar criminals?

How about because nobody should be able to go from perfectly fine to having ruined their life* in under 30 seconds. you have one dumb thought, open twitter on your phone, push tweet, and it's over. That's not an ability people should have. We are impulsive and often dumb.

He had his dumb thought, broadcast it, and then continued to publicly support his dumb thought for days. I know it's great to be a CEO and say anything you want on Twitter, but you should at least run it by PR and IR first, because they're going to get asked about it. And maybe someone says 'Hey Elon, that's not actually true.' or ' Hey Elon, you can't post that while the market is open.' or 'Dude, we have to send this to the SEC and wait 10 minutes, dummy'
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