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Oracle’s Java 11 trap

blog.joda.org

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Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#71

Post by veidr »

pharaohgeek wrote: post #50
wheresvic1 wrote: post #16

I'm not sure Java is worth the effort at this point. If I'm going to have to keep updating every 6 months, I would rather use Go, which seems to have all that Java has to offer + the backing of a huge corporation.

Personally, I wish Swift had a larger server-side ecosystem around it. I love the language, and some of the new web app frameworks (Vapor, Perfect, Kitura, etc.) are really great. However, there just aren't as many open-source, third-party libraries as there are for Java. To me, that's really Java's strength. There are libraries or clients for EVERYTHING.

I like Swift, too, and if it's a rap battle between Swift and Java, I think Swift has to emphasize C interop, and more recently (or perhaps "soonly"?) Python interop.

But regardless, we're gonna have to give it a few years to get a Swift ecosystem even trying to get on the mic in the same venues as Java/JDK.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#72

Post by deskamess »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #54
JoshuaAshton wrote: post #24

Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. They're actively hostile to the whole tech community and their entire business model is based on trapping people into paying for things by not making their licenses clear or changing their licenses. I don't know why anyone would use any software made by Oracle these days, the alternatives and open implementations of their own systems ten…

> by not making their licenses clear How is that? The license is pretty clear, as stated in the article: > You may not: use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application; If you cannot understand that language you should not download or use the JDK.

When they reference "programs" does this apply to the JRE (i.e., the java binary as well) as well? Is this a JDK license or a JRE license issue?

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#73

Post by TomMarius »

cesarb wrote: post #60
Leace wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's good that package managers ship only openjdk. When I migrated to Linux I didn't know better but as "openjdk" was easier to install than Oracle JDK I used "openjdk". It turns out it works very well, actually I can't tell the difference.

Unfortunately, many people add a repository with Oracle JDK to their package managers and install the JDK from there, due to some perceived better compatibility and/or extra bug fixes. (And in my experience, this is true for the Java plugin; the "official" plugin seems to work better than the IcedTea plugin.)

A few years ago, Minecraft simply wouldn't run nearly as good on OpenJRE, not even the server - it was several times slower. Not sure how it is today since I've stopped playing around 5 years ago.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#74

Post by blunte »

This is surely no mistake on Oracle's part.

Remember, this is the same company that for years grossly knowingly overcharged the US government for licenses, resulting in hundreds of millions later paid in fines.

Their focus is pure bottom line. If that means cheating, so be it. If it means the equivalent of a bait and switch, sure why not.

It's really a shame that circumstances are what they are now. Sun may have had warts, but in comparison it was highly admirable.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#75

Post by deskamess »

bitL wrote: post #11
tyler274 wrote: post #2

as long as openjdk remains open i dont mind

OpenJDK used to have some incompatibilities that tended to blow up in production (rare case "enjoyment") - is it now 100% compatible with original Oracle SDK? Otherwise companies would be forced to use commercial one in order not to disrupt their legacy systems.

In addition to compat, is performance on par too? I know the JVM is highly performant and was wondering if there were any patent restrictions that would prevent an open JRE (I assume there is such a thing) from being as performant as the Oracle JRE.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#76

Post by snarfy »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #54
JoshuaAshton wrote: post #24

Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. They're actively hostile to the whole tech community and their entire business model is based on trapping people into paying for things by not making their licenses clear or changing their licenses. I don't know why anyone would use any software made by Oracle these days, the alternatives and open implementations of their own systems ten…

> by not making their licenses clear How is that? The license is pretty clear, as stated in the article: > You may not: use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application; If you cannot understand that language you should not download or use the JDK.

You missed the rest of the quote.

> or changing their licenses.

It was never clear they were going to change their license after years of making it $free to something not $free.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#77

Post by jodastephen »

blunte wrote: post #74

This is surely no mistake on Oracle's part. Remember, this is the same company that for years grossly knowingly overcharged the US government for licenses, resulting in hundreds of millions later paid in fines. Their focus is pure bottom line. If that means cheating, so be it. If it means the equivalent of a bait and switch, sure why not. It's really a shame that circumstances are what they are now. Sun may have had…

Maybe. But they have also provided a $free alternative. This is solely a battle of getting Java users weened off Oracle JDK and onto an OpenJDK build.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#78

Post by paradite »

Is this actually a trap? The "trap" page has a huge warning section that clearly tells you license has substantially changed and how to get open JDK, and what license it has.

> With JDK 11 Oracle has updated the license terms on which we offer the Oracle JDK. The new Oracle Technology Network License Agreement for Oracle Java SE is substantially different from the licenses under which previous versions of the JDK were offered. Please review the new terms carefully before downloading and using this product.

> Oracle also offers this software under the GPL License on jdk.java.net/11

https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk...

This information is either deliberately or accidentally missing in the post. If we assume the author did his research before writing this piece, I can only believe this was done with purpose.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#79

Post by craigsmansion »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #54
JoshuaAshton wrote: post #24

Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. They're actively hostile to the whole tech community and their entire business model is based on trapping people into paying for things by not making their licenses clear or changing their licenses. I don't know why anyone would use any software made by Oracle these days, the alternatives and open implementations of their own systems ten…

> by not making their licenses clear How is that? The license is pretty clear, as stated in the article: > You may not: use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application; If you cannot understand that language you should not download or use the JDK.

Of course an Eldritch Horror apologist is going to take Oracle's side. Have you ever considered being eaten first isn't all it's made out to be?

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#80

Post by bimbam »

I believe the article is mistaken. Their License says:

>"Program(s)" refers to Oracle software provided by Oracle pursuant to this Agreement and any updates, error corrections, and/or Program Documentation provided by Oracle.

Not programs you create using the JDK

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