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Let Teenagers Sleep In

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#301

Post by Zak »

DenisM wrote: post #269
Zak wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the consequences (both formal and informal) if a student slept in? People can do things that are both unpleasant and harmful to them for extended periods of time if subjected to sufficient coercion, social pressure, or reward.

No one ever complained about poor performance due to lack of sleep the way modern-day "owls" do. I don't think it matters how they (we) were forced to observe the regime, only that it yielded the result - lark sleep and good performance for near 100% of students. My point is that the "owl" thing is environmental. To answer your question, tardy students would be admonished by the teacher/supervisor/monitor and possibl…

If the majority of students are owls by nature, and everyone was being coerced into a lark schedule, how would you know if that had a detrimental effect or not? There's no control group.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#302

Post by DenisM »

Zak wrote: post #301
DenisM wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one ever complained about poor performance due to lack of sleep the way modern-day "owls" do. I don't think it matters how they (we) were forced to observe the regime, only that it yielded the result - lark sleep and good performance for near 100% of students. My point is that the "owl" thing is environmental. To answer your question, tardy students would be admonished by the teacher/supervisor/monitor and possibl…

If the majority of students are owls by nature, and everyone was being coerced into a lark schedule, how would you know if that had a detrimental effect or not? There's no control group.

Because they functioned just fine on lark schedule.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#303

Post by EADGBE »

emodendroket wrote: post #297
bootlooped wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a suspicion that after-school sports is one of the reasons school starts so early. If high school let out between 5 and 6 pm, then that would leave not as much time for sports. There is a high school in Texas with a $72 million dollar stadium. That should be indicative of where the priorities are.

Texas is a bit of an outlier.

Throwing money at athletics (and skimping on the rest) is pretty fair game throughout the US.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#304

Post by [deleted] »

pkelly2505 wrote: post #300

On my way to work today I saw a couple of school buses picking up students at about 6:45. Now if you think that's too early and we should have schools open later, I see a real problem. By law where I live, all traffic, in both directions, has to stop when school buses pick up kids. Put those buses on the road between 8:00 and 9:00 and the already horrible rush hour traffic would get way worse. Along with making every…

[deleted]

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#306

Post by sizzle »

pseudalopex wrote: post #258
sizzle wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amphetamine salts instant release (10mg x 2) and extended release beads (30mg x 1) across the whole day. Make I'll try dexadrine and then vynase, but I recall vynase is converted to a lower level of amphetamine in the body than straight amphetamine?

Vyvanse contains less amphetamine milligram for milligram, but that's offset by better absorption and higher doses. It's also all the same form, which works better for some people. What you describe can be mostly from physical stress of being stimulated all day. Dexedrine, Vyvanse, or methylphenidate might give you a better ratio of cognitive to physical effects. Supplementing with a non-stimulant medication might he…

Thanks for the information, much appreciated! I'm afraid to speak with a psych cause they will take me off these meds that I rely on to perform neurotypically. Ritalin made me bipolar with severe mood swings. Wellbutrin paradoxically made me feel depressed. Only amps have allowed my brain fog to subside and slow down my racing thoughts.

Magnesium is great, I take it throughout the day. L-theanine helps with the come down as well.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#307

Post by dang »

sk5t wrote: post #197
dpatrick86 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6:30AM is just some other city's 11:30AM... the difference in between is just light exposure, food consumption, and activity (the three big zeitgebers). Unless you think you'd never resynchronize after moving across the world, it's pretty obvious that your wake and sleep time would have to be a lot more malleable than you suggest.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The cycle of light and dark is of the essence here.

Personal swipes will get you banned here, so please edit those out of your posts. Your comment would be fine with just the second sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#308

Post by dang »

devxpy wrote: post #180
macspoofing wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager Did you try going to sleep earlier? Who said you couldn't have 9.5 hours of sleep? The other thing you probably would have benefitted from is an afternoon nap (if you were unwilling to go to bed a 9pm). To blame others (those evil 55 year old early risers) is to deflect your own accountability. By the way, I was an early riser in high-schools and I preferred to get out…

> If you are an early riser, you should know that as someone with a sleep disorder I view "helpful" suggestions like "get some exercise" to be roughly equivalent to suggesting that gay people just need to pray the gay away Learn to read, AI chatbot.

Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of whether someone else read a comment properly. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#309

Post by Teckla »

a1369209993 wrote: post #276
Teckla wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read somewhere (lost the source) that 5 mg is far too much, and that closer to 0.5 mg is not only sufficient, but works better. Do you have any experience changing the size of your melatonin dose, and if so, could you share any findings?

http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-tha... Mostly under "2. What is the right dose of melatonin?", but you should probably read the whole thing.

Thank you! That was extremely informative.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#310

Post by Zak »

DenisM wrote: post #302
Zak wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the majority of students are owls by nature, and everyone was being coerced into a lark schedule, how would you know if that had a detrimental effect or not? There's no control group.

Because they functioned just fine on lark schedule.

I'm sure that's true for certain values of "just fine".

Would you notice, however, if to the extent such things could be quantified, on average, students were falling 10% short of their potential? 20%? Would you notice a 10% increase in mild to moderate mental health issues within the student population?

We're not talking about differences so dramatic an untrained observer would notice a problem. Your observations are sufficient to say that severe, acute harm from putting teenagers on a lark schedule is unlikely, or at least rare. The article doesn't say that there's acute harm, just that a later schedule is better for the health and academic performance of students.

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