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Let Teenagers Sleep In

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#251

Post by curun1r »

Retric wrote: post #246
curun1r wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe like you do. What I believed to be my natural schedule--what I naturally gravitated to--was the nite-owl 1am to between 9-10am or so sleep schedule. In school, I always felt sleep deprived when I had to wake up around 6. But I recently spent the better part of five months going to bed at 9:30pm and waking up at 4:30am. Despite getting less sleep overall, I've never felt as well rested or alert throu…

Sleep schedules dramatically change with age and a lot of sub conscious stimuli. So, don't try and generalize from what works for any one person. EX: I have started to get up around 6am even if the room is dark and I am not getting enough sleep. I find it annoying, and nothing changed but my age.

I'd agree with you, but as soon as I came back to live in the city, my nite-owl tendencies returned with a vengeance. It was like flipping a switch.

I'm also not trying to generalize to everyone, I'm only surmising that there may be a lot of people like me. It's arrogant to assume your personal experiences apply to specific other people, but it's equally arrogant to assume you're a snowflake and that other people's experience is irrelevant to your situation. Everyone is their own unique blend of the many human commonalities.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#252

Post by pfranz »

curun1r wrote: post #233
lamontcg wrote: post #154

I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager and probably had diagnosable delayed sleep phase disorder. Rules made by 55 year old early risers that only need 6 hours of sleep a night who have become school officials are just cruel and unusual punishment to a chunk of teenagers out there. In a better world there could be a class action lawsuit to make this stop--but its still considered okay to promote "early to be…

I used to believe like you do. What I believed to be my natural schedule--what I naturally gravitated to--was the nite-owl 1am to between 9-10am or so sleep schedule. In school, I always felt sleep deprived when I had to wake up around 6. But I recently spent the better part of five months going to bed at 9:30pm and waking up at 4:30am. Despite getting less sleep overall, I've never felt as well rested or alert throu…

I heard one theory that in general older people wake up earlier and younger people stay up later as a way that a group of people could watch the village 24/7.

I can confidently say that multiple years of waking up early as a high school student did nothing to make me a morning person. 10-15 years later I find it more difficult to sleep in to 12-1pm when given the opportunity.

As a kid, I seem to remember my grandmother always waking up obscenely early. I feel like I've watched my mother transition from a "normal" morning person who will sleep in an hour or two extra on the weekend to waking up obscenely early consistently.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#253

Post by misterman101 »

darkerside wrote: post #42
QML wrote: post #23

I wonder if it'd just be easier for high schools to convert over to a college model: students are free to pick courses corresponding to their preferred times, and to leave and enter campus on will. Of course, there will be incentives to consider -- why would a high schooler attend their classes if they're not paying directly out of pocket? In contrast, a school district would try to maximize the attendance rate as th…

This seems like a great way to kill the public secondary school system. What percentage of kids do you estimate would stop going to class under this model?

I went to a high school that had a college-like schedule with the campus covering a few buildings in downtown (small city). Attendance wasn't mandatory, grades were exam/deliverable based.

The freedom was great for high-achievers. Normal students showed up to classes like normal. Almost-dropouts didn't go to class and waste everyone's time (eventually they were transferred to regular high-school).

I learned valuable life-lessons compared to the hand-holding and babysitting done in other high schools, and highly recommend the model.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#254

Post by hhjinks »

Retric wrote: post #246
curun1r wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe like you do. What I believed to be my natural schedule--what I naturally gravitated to--was the nite-owl 1am to between 9-10am or so sleep schedule. In school, I always felt sleep deprived when I had to wake up around 6. But I recently spent the better part of five months going to bed at 9:30pm and waking up at 4:30am. Despite getting less sleep overall, I've never felt as well rested or alert throu…

Sleep schedules dramatically change with age and a lot of sub conscious stimuli. So, don't try and generalize from what works for any one person. EX: I have started to get up around 6am even if the room is dark and I am not getting enough sleep. I find it annoying, and nothing changed but my age.

Sleep schedules also change base on your behaviour. If you need 10 hours of sleep, go to bed 2 hours earlier. I used to sleep from 1am to 9am half a year ago, but now I sleep from 10pm to 6am, and feel exactly the same. The only thing that changed was when I went to bed.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#255

Post by DenisM »

I was in a boarding school with hundreds of other teenagers. My classmates never* slept in (always attended the first class), and I’ve never seen anyone sleeping in from other classes/groups. We went to classes and were in a good shape, I don’t recall anyone complaining.

There was one exception - a classmate that I believe was secretely drinking alcohol. Even for him it was an exception to sleep in. Also I’ve see the monitor looking for the sleepers, like that guy, so the problem was not entirely unknown.

We were not selected based on our sleep, but on academic performance. This was long ago and we were poor enough to allow no electronic devices whatsoever, alcohol was forbidden, and lights-out were strictly enforced. Not much spare food either after dinner.

The “teenage owl” thing has to be almost entirely environmental in order to explain my experience.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#256

Post by golemiprague »

They can sleep in as much as they want if they go to sleep in the appropriate time. Teens don't have so much stuff to do, it is just that they want to go to sleep late because they must have just this extra hour of video gaming or texting. It is not really necessary.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#257

Post by boomboomsubban »

rootusrootus wrote: post #201
emodendroket wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means you have to do some kind of staggering. But the order is always older-younger, although younger kids are naturally awake earlier.

It makes sense for the order to be older-younger, because high school has a longer day than elementary school, so pushing their start time to after the elementary school will make it so the elementary kids are out at noon or just after and the high school kids won't be done until dinner time. Symmetrical makes it easier for everyone's schedule.

When I was five, kindergarten was a half of a day. Every other grade was a full day, and I'm fairly sure kindergarten was full day by the time I graduated.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#258

Post by pseudalopex »

sizzle wrote: post #249
derefr wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What drug? The come-down from Vyvanse is very gentle. (Really, it lasts long enough for a person of average metabolism that what you experience in the evening isn't even the withdrawal , but just the tail-end of the dose, where there's slightly less of it. To experience the withdrawal , you have to stay up ~18 hours after taking it. Even then, from the few times I've had to stay awake for other reasons, it's still wh…

Amphetamine salts instant release (10mg x 2) and extended release beads (30mg x 1) across the whole day. Make I'll try dexadrine and then vynase, but I recall vynase is converted to a lower level of amphetamine in the body than straight amphetamine?

Vyvanse contains less amphetamine milligram for milligram, but that's offset by better absorption and higher doses. It's also all the same form, which works better for some people.

What you describe can be mostly from physical stress of being stimulated all day. Dexedrine, Vyvanse, or methylphenidate might give you a better ratio of cognitive to physical effects. Supplementing with a non-stimulant medication might help with your symptoms in the evening and also let you take a lower dose of amphetamine during the day. There's evidence that some supplements, like magnesium, can reduce adverse effects from stimulants. You probably already know this, but it's important to eat enough throughout the day and often hard to do that.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#259

Post by darkerside »

misterman101 wrote: post #253
darkerside wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a great way to kill the public secondary school system. What percentage of kids do you estimate would stop going to class under this model?

I went to a high school that had a college-like schedule with the campus covering a few buildings in downtown (small city). Attendance wasn't mandatory, grades were exam/deliverable based. The freedom was great for high-achievers. Normal students showed up to classes like normal. Almost-dropouts didn't go to class and waste everyone's time (eventually they were transferred to regular high-school). I learned valuable…

I'm not surprised by this at all. I just wonder what the percentages of each roughly defined category is. I'll also point out that, in your case, there were fallback alternatives. If all high schools operated this way, what's the fallback?

Thanks for sharing. I'd be interested to read more about the program.

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