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Let Teenagers Sleep In

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#41

Post by RustySpottedCat »

rerx wrote: post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

yea but we're not in tribes, are we? People take this evolutionary bullshit way too seriously, like we still run around with sticks and stones. None of that crap matters when we live in a modern society. Teenages are going to "socialize with themselves" whether they sleep in or not, no matter what, because, guess what, that's what people do in modern times. They can choose.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#42

Post by darkerside »

QML wrote: post #23

I wonder if it'd just be easier for high schools to convert over to a college model: students are free to pick courses corresponding to their preferred times, and to leave and enter campus on will. Of course, there will be incentives to consider -- why would a high schooler attend their classes if they're not paying directly out of pocket? In contrast, a school district would try to maximize the attendance rate as th…

This seems like a great way to kill the public secondary school system. What percentage of kids do you estimate would stop going to class under this model?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#43

Post by ndnxhs »

coding123 wrote: post #7

Or you know have them go to bed at 10 instead of let the play video games until 2am.

When I was a teenager I would happily program until 02:00 and getting to sleep earlier was pretty much impossible. I could lie in bed for a few hours but unless it was 02:00 I was not going to sleep. I still do the same activities now but at 23:30 I'm done for the day and can't think well anymore.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#44

Post by emodendroket »

ndnxhs wrote: post #36
emodendroket wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they are "hardcoded" in this way is one of the major points of this piece. Changing the curriculum, whatever its merits or demerits, is not going to result in fewer teens dying in car crashes.

Idk. I had a few close calls while driving to school mostly asleep.

Yes, that's kind of the point.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#45

Post by madeofpalk »

shawn wrote: post #22
fiblye wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a school in America at a school where fights happened at least weekly. I still took advantage of what I was offered.

Yes, an environment where prisoners fight other prisoners sounds much preferable to learning a trade. Anyway, the mods have deemed "thou shalt only post five comments every three hours," so... See you tomorrow. Also the right teacher can make all the difference. Telling victims "Shut up and deal with it" isn't too productive, though it's the usual advice. EDIT: Since I can't reply, I'll just post it here. You'd be su…

This is a false dichotomy - the only options arent "have gang land fights in all our schools" or "commit everyone to manual labor apprenticeships". If we're considering big changes to the education system, why isn't a safe learning environment on the cards?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#46

Post by roel_v »

QML wrote: post #23

I wonder if it'd just be easier for high schools to convert over to a college model: students are free to pick courses corresponding to their preferred times, and to leave and enter campus on will. Of course, there will be incentives to consider -- why would a high schooler attend their classes if they're not paying directly out of pocket? In contrast, a school district would try to maximize the attendance rate as th…

The best ranking high school in my area (south of the Netherlands) works more or less like this (I don't think all attendance is fully at will). There is a lot of innovation going on in this space, even those who were in high schools just 5 years ago would notice major changes.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#47

Post by kchoudhu »

QML wrote: post #23

I wonder if it'd just be easier for high schools to convert over to a college model: students are free to pick courses corresponding to their preferred times, and to leave and enter campus on will. Of course, there will be incentives to consider -- why would a high schooler attend their classes if they're not paying directly out of pocket? In contrast, a school district would try to maximize the attendance rate as th…

This interferes with the primary babysitting function that schools occupy in our society.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#48

Post by hrzn »

RustySpottedCat wrote: post #41
rerx wrote: post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

yea but we're not in tribes, are we? People take this evolutionary bullshit way too seriously, like we still run around with sticks and stones. None of that crap matters when we live in a modern society. Teenages are going to "socialize with themselves" whether they sleep in or not, no matter what, because, guess what, that's what people do in modern times. They can choose.

What they meant is that we evolved in a way that made teenagers having shifted cycles, going to sleep later and waking up later. We're not living in tribes anymore, but evolution is slow and we still cary these biological traits. It therefore hurts teenagers to wake up as early as adults. The point here is not about leaving them more time to socialize in the evening.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#49

Post by boomboomsubban »

emodendroket wrote: post #31

> Changing the operating hours of an institution so central to the community is far from easy. It requires strong leadership and adjustments by school bus companies and businesses offering services like child care and extracurricular clubs. Here's the elephant in the room. High schools start and end earlier with the idea that older kids can watch their siblings. I'd say a lack of public commitment to child care is al…

>Here's the elephant in the room. High schools start and end earlier with the idea that older kids can watch their siblings.

I've always been under the impression that start times were staggered for transportation reasons, as you can't drop everyone off at the same time. My experiences are limited to small towns, so I could be way off, but the differences seemed too small for sibling care to be the motive

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#50

Post by watwut »

Coding_Cat wrote: post #9
coding123 wrote: post #7

Or you know have them go to bed at 10 instead of let the play video games until 2am.

Teenagers natural sleeping cycle is markedly later than any other age bracket. When I was one, I wasn't allowed to play any videogames past 20:30, and I would often spend the evening reading books by a nightlight. Everyday I cycled for almost 2 hours (at ~20-25 kmh), so I got some regular exercise each day too. Nevertheless, I would still on occasion go to bed at 10:30 (had to get up at 6:30) and lie awake in bed til…

I had friends who went to school in nearby city - meaning they had to wake up 5:45 to catch the bus every day. Their sleeping schedule changed after few weeks - they went to sleep sooner then me every day and it became "new normal" for them.

Likely, if the school and whole world moved every activity an hour up, you would lie awake till 02:00-03:00.

It is same with adults and same with little kids. When you wake them up regularly determines when they will need to sleep.

People with sleep problems have sleep problems no matter flexible schedule or what.

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