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People Like You More Than You Know

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Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#91

It takes me about 3-4 months of being around someone regularly before I’m convinced that they aren’t constantly annoyed by me and everything that I say. I hide it pretty well. Sartre was on to something with his comments about “the gaze of the Other”.

That's funny. It takes me about 3-4 months of being around someone regularly before I'm not constantly annoyed by them and everything that they say. I hide it pretty well. I've had to learn the difficult way that my first impression of people is usually not an impression they deserve.

Interestingly, I’d say both apply to me and it’s actually about the same time period, too.

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#92

Does it really matter what others think? Too much of our self-worth is tied up in the fleeting opinions of others. There are only two opinions that matter to me: my wife’s and my daughter’s. The rest of humanity is made up of people I interact with for a specific purpose, such as work, and those interactions are governed by certain rules. Within such frameworks we play our roles and go our separate ways after, and no…

I used to not give a damn about how others think, and just did whatever fancied me at the moment. But now I'm older and wiser, I actually do care about what others think.

What I realized, after living in many different places and cultures where I get treated differently, is that being self-centered/absorbed is a privilege only afforded by people who are well liked or respected. Just like rich people never have to worry about making ends meet, healthy people worry less about getting sick, and men rarely worry about lining up at public washrooms.

Naturally well liked/respected people can afford to worry less about how others think of them. The unfortunate ones will have to deal with harassment, rejection, ostracization before eventually figure out how to be liked, or how to find people who will like them.

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#93
post #57
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where he is now A celebrated 100x programmer at the top of the software engineering hierarchy, whose work helped span a trillion dollar industry? He might have regretted being so abrasive as of late, but let's not paint things as if he failed to accomplish much because of that. In fact it might have helped solidify a more cautious approach around kernel development and keep possible detractors at bay, in the early…

Well, we're all saddled with git's total disregard for the user experience. We'd still be struggling with the positive and negative aspects of open source software if Linus hadn't existed, just as the first world war would probably have happened anyway if Gavrilo Princip hadn't precipitated it. Bear in mind that however good a coder Linus might be, RMS is still an influential figure for political reasons despite chec…

I quite like gits user experience, personally. If you don't like it, there are lots of tools built on top of it that make it easier to use. Not sure what the issue is.

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#94
I think it has also have something to do on how you look towards life. If you are more like to be optimistic about life, you're doing the same as much as you look towards other people.

But if you have other reasons as for like you've gone through traumatic experience, I think it will have effect about on how you will connect to people thou some process like counselling may work things out for them it still depends on your status and outlook towards life. Financially, emotionally and physically.

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#95

I'm sure this is true. Another thing I'm sure of is how little time most people spend thinking about other people. Even the people in my life I don't care for, I rarely spend more than a passing moment thinking about them, even if they're in the same room. The ones I do think about a lot are the ones I love (wife, children, closest friends). Despite knowing this, though, I'll admit that I can spend a lot of time thin…

When you're young, you worry a lot about what others think of you.

When you're middle-aged, you stop caring about what others think of you.

When you're old, you realize nobody is thinking about you.

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#96
post #28

These are true stories. I don't wish to come across as bragging. The last day of a job I had for seven years, the director of engineering told me I was the best engineer he ever knew. And he worked for some pretty well known engineering firms. If he had told me that before, I might not have left. A woman came into my office--someone who didn't seem to want to give me the time of day--and the conversation got around t…

This is why you shouldn't be afraid to give out (truthful) compliments folks. For a small communication effort, you may make a big enough impact for your compliment to be remembered for years. Maybe the person will even smile to themselves and write a nice HN comment about it! (or not quit your company)...

>This is why you shouldn't be afraid to give out (truthful) compliments folks.

That's what I try to do. Sometimes people take it as insincere flattery because I guess they think it is sarcasm at first. But I do mean it, every time!

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you had to go through such a shitty aftermath. That sounds terrifying. It sounds like he took the compliment as a sign that you were really serious about him and the relationship, whereas you intended it just as a statement about his eyes. The “nutcase levels of obsessed” part sounds like a pre-existing problem / part of this guy’s temperament, rather than a normal response to receiving compliments. The people…

I think a key detail is he wasn't especially good looking and I complimented him on a physical trait. I've known lots of people over the years who had baggage over X and who made X into some big damn deal where it was impossible to say you liked them without it going weird places. Short men do this a lot and make it impossible to say "Eh, your height doesn't bother me, but I like X about you." Men who see themselves…

>"Short men do this a lot and make it impossible to say "Eh, your height doesn't bother me, but I like X about you."

Men who see themselves as ugly do this."

Wait, you think telling someone, "Don't worry, your ugliness doesn't bother me. After all, you're friendly!" is a reasonable thing to say someone?

That's the exact opposite of making X trait a non-issue.

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you shouldn't be afraid to give out (truthful) compliments folks I've been seriously and repeatedly burned for doing that. I then spent years dialing it back. I'm 53 and only just now working on figuring out how to do that again without letting it turn into some shit show where everyone treats me like I'm their bitch. Every single guy I have ever gushed at about how keen he is has, without fail, promptly…

> Maybe I'm just doing it wrong. No, you're just falling foul of a dynamic that preexists you. Women giving men compliments is, for the most part, interpreted as a come-on. It's not fair, and it hinders the frank communication between men and women that makes really healthy social environments such a joy to operate in, but it's the case more often than not.

>Women giving men compliments is, for the most part, interpreted as a come-on. It's not fair

Umm..I'm pretty sure men complementing women have it a lot worse.

Re: People Like You More Than You Know

#100
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've learnt that few people like a strange, mostly silent creature being around long. It's very rare that I'm around anyone long enough for me to get past it and actually make a friend. Well, being a friend is all about communication. If one sits silent, how can the other gauge if they are good friend material? They could be totally incompatible, a jerk, rude, stupid, etc -- and there's no way to tell otherwise unl…

I recognize this, and yeah it's obvious why others find it strange. I find it difficult to explain. I can fake and cope when rules are known. I can talk where there's shared rules for everyone like an interview or a class, with staff in a store. When it gets to free format, like the lunch break, I don't know the answers any more and have to take time thinking up something to say, so people reasonably move on to more…

I can relate to this description a lot! I find that my mind is very blank whenever around people (from strangers to closer acquaintances), which makes it really hard for me to avoid modes in which the other person asks me question and I feel like I'm filling out a questionnaire verbally.

I've started observing some upward trend over the past 2 months, so maybe I could offer some food for thought that doesn't cue the "Gee thanks" in your head.

- I felt rather apathetic about life for some time. I felt less uncomfortable around people and my mind felt less blank after caring about more things. I don't have a simple answer to "How do you care about things more?", but I can say more if you're interested.

- I feel like an outsider pretty often, which makes it hard to be myself around others. For example, I like to learn math, but I feel too embarrassed to answer that to "What do you like to do for fun?" Now I tell people about the more "acceptable" pasttimes that I've picked up recently, like some tidbits I've learned from cooking + asking for their cooking and taste advice. I don't find these cooking conversations as engrossing as when I can talk to someone else about math, but it's a medium between "don't have any interest in the other person" and "really want to be their best friend".

- I often fall into a state where I see most people around me as "NPCs". A game that helped me shift out of this was people-watching and story-telling. When passing people on sidewalks, I would take an extra second to watch their face and body language and guess what they were thinking or feeling.

- I sometimes come off as nervous, closed-off, or unengaging in conversation. Recording a couple of my conversations + listening to them helped me hear myself from 3rd person, and be more aware of when I interrupted people or when I sounded disengaged. There are a ton of hacks I learned for having more socially-acceptable body language. This helps me feel less nervous, so I spend fewer cycles worrying and a little bit more engaged in the conversation. Examples:

* I tend to not make eye contact because people's stares made me nervous; making eye contact with one of their eyes is much easier than both.

* I talk somewhat quietly and find it hard to raise my volume; I talked from a deeper part of my voice (which incidentally also calms me down).

* I would either cross my arms, put them behind my back, fidget with my hands, fidget with items, or put my hands in my pocket, all of which send a closed-off signal; when I don't have an item to hold, I try to leave my hands at my side and focus on touching my thumbs and index fingers as lightly as possible, which also calms me.

- I found myself pushing off responding to friends on Messenger/text because sometimes I didn't know what to say or because it takes too much effort to think of something to say. I found it helpful to practice responding immediately whenever possible.

- I had to keep reminding myself that even the most socially fluid people probably only click with at most 20% of people, so having "failed interactions" is very acceptable.

Ultimately, I think it's about being less distracted and more alert during conversations. My thoughts wander a fair amount, and I still have a long way to go before I'm fully present in these conversations. Feel free to email me if you want to share some thoughts privately; I'm still figuring this out and could use some other perspectives. :)

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