Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel

#101

Post by colechristensen » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

Pristina wrote: post #92

mirimir wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I get that. What matters now is mostly appearance. And maybe vague stuff about ability to keep an edge. But back in the day, you were in deep shit if your sword shattered. Or even got notched, if that put you off the flow.

What scenario am I in where I would have a sword, have it shattered and be in trouble? In war, people mostly use polearms. In a sword fight, as has been shown in many HEMA videos i have seen, it's over in a single exchange. At that point it doesn't matter if your sword is shattered or not. And the idea that your sword being notched will 'put you off the flow' just doesn't buy it for me.

Basically whenever you are using a sword that isn't some ritualized combat.

If you are using it in a battle and your sword breaks after the first exchange, what then?

Here is an hour long documentary answering your question: https://www.pbs.org/video/nova-secrets-viking-sword/

Re: Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel

#102

Post by SamReidHughes » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 9:27 PM UTC

qarioz wrote: post #94

SamReidHughes wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually some people do go for Rolex because +/- 2 spd guarantees much less of a hassle than certain other mechanical watches' upper bound of +5, +6, or +10 spd.

Cheap Casio has better accuracy than any mechanical watches.

This is not actually true anymore, but it might have been true a few years ago.

Re: Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel

#103

Post by pluma » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 9:30 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #98

pluma wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For swords, I gather that key features are 1) notching or shattering other blades, and 2) resisting being notched or shattered by them. You're thinking of theatrical fencing. All that cling-clang-cling makes for great visuals and sound but is undesirable in real combat. Unless you have two knights in full armor clobbering each other over the head (at which point a mace is probably more efficient than a delicate swo…

> Although D&D may have taught you differently, a "sword block" is a wasted counter-attack. Why bother binding your sword if you could have used the opportunity to slip out of the way and catch the opponent off balance and end him? I dunno, I did a bit of fencing and I know there are all sorts of ways to bind the blade and counterattack simultaneously. In fact, the a HUGE portion of the Die Blume des Kampfes (histori…

Sure, but how many of those techniques involve intentionally damaging the opponent's sword? The emphasis in what you said lies on "and counterattack simultaneously". If you overcommit into a block enough to damage the opponent's weapon, you won't be able to counterattack.

The reason the 5lb sword still moves swiftly is that it's not used for a Hollywood cleave.

Re: Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel

#104

Post by mirimir » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

pluma wrote: post #103

dragontamer wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although D&D may have taught you differently, a "sword block" is a wasted counter-attack. Why bother binding your sword if you could have used the opportunity to slip out of the way and catch the opponent off balance and end him? I dunno, I did a bit of fencing and I know there are all sorts of ways to bind the blade and counterattack simultaneously. In fact, the a HUGE portion of the Die Blume des Kampfes (histori…

Sure, but how many of those techniques involve intentionally damaging the opponent's sword? The emphasis in what you said lies on "and counterattack simultaneously". If you overcommit into a block enough to damage the opponent's weapon, you won't be able to counterattack. The reason the 5lb sword still moves swiftly is that it's not used for a Hollywood cleave.

I agree with you 100% that Hollywood-style direct blade-blade blocks are rare. At least, for skilled fighters. But they do happen, as a last resort. You get knocked down, say, and use your blade as a shield.

But about those Claymores. You're right that they'd be slow for cleaves, with the huge rotational inertia. But in melee, it's my impression (perhaps colored by too much fiction) that one can make that an advantage. Basically, by never reversing direction, but rather by following 3D Lissajous curves. Which isn't really that different from Aikido.

Re: Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel

#105

Post by int_19h » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 8:25 PM UTC

rstuart4133 wrote: post #100

int_19h wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some examples would be CPM S30V, S35VN, S90V, and S110V; CPM 3V, 9V, 10V, 15V; A2, D2, O1 and S7; VG-10. Some of these are arguably "more Damascus than Damascus", in a sense that they're also mixes, but on a much finer level. For example, S30V - a relatively affordable "super steel" - is one of those known as "powder steels" due to the way they're made, achieving extreme uniformity and purity of the alloy even at mic…

What I'd give to have that performance in a folding fish filleting knife. Resharpening after every 2nd fish when you have 30 fish to do gets tiresome after a while. I tried to find such a beast, but either they don't exist of my google failed me.

Look for small shops that do custom orders - they are usually happy to make whatever you need. Of course, it's also going to be priced accordingly.

Also, it looks like these guys make them with S30V and S90V (it's not on the page, but look at the title!)

http://www.dunnknives.com/filletknives.html

Having said that... wouldn't a ceramic knife be better for this task? It's going to be more wear resistant than any steel, and I don't think you need to worry about brittleness or chipping in this application.

Re: Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel

#106

Post by pluma » Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #104

pluma wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but how many of those techniques involve intentionally damaging the opponent's sword? The emphasis in what you said lies on "and counterattack simultaneously". If you overcommit into a block enough to damage the opponent's weapon, you won't be able to counterattack. The reason the 5lb sword still moves swiftly is that it's not used for a Hollywood cleave.

I agree with you 100% that Hollywood-style direct blade-blade blocks are rare. At least, for skilled fighters. But they do happen, as a last resort. You get knocked down, say, and use your blade as a shield. But about those Claymores. You're right that they'd be slow for cleaves, with the huge rotational inertia. But in melee, it's my impression (perhaps colored by too much fiction) that one can make that an advantag…

> following 3D Lissajous curves

The only problem with that is that it creates predictability, which is what you want to avoid.

That said, my entire argument was that it's not helpful to imagine swords as having been specifically designed for causing damage to other swords or even withstanding repeat blade-on-blade strikes for extended period of times. And we seem to agree on that.

Re: Ask a Knifemaker: The Truth About Damascus Steel

#107

Post by efremjw » Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

grzm wrote: post #28

efremjw wrote: post #27

Is it possible to make corrosion resistant stainless in the Damascus style...or will the dissimilar materials cause galvanic corrosion or the spaces between the different alloys result in crevice corrosion?

The article explicitly mentions an all-stainless Damascus steel formulation: > "Devin makes all-stainless Damascus steel, high contrast, double high carbon, and many, many exotic patterns. "

Right, but even raw pure stainless of let's say 304 or 316 will rust in naked form due to the small crevices left on the surface straight from the mill...if multiple dissimilar layers of stainless or folded, it seems to me that stainless Damascus will be very vulnerable to rusting... unless there is something in the chemistry between the individual layers that mitigates this, no?