FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error • Hacker News Board

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#131

Post by posterboy » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #108

DannyBee wrote: post #14

Yeah, a quick read of the relevant regs tells me Fanduel is gonna lose this one (Unless i've missed something)[1,2] The law on this is pretty clear, and they can't unilaterally decide not to apply the gaming regulations of the state, or change them through their contracts. (They can decide not to do business in states they don't like the regulations of course) BTW, somewhat hilariously, the part they "..."'d is just…

But these are still contracts, subject to the basics of contract law. Contracts are not meant to be gotcha moments where one side leverages the mistakes of another. Look to the booking of flights. A small error here and there on price will be enforced. But a monumental error leveraged by people who would otherwise not fly will nullify the contract (ie hundreds of people suddenly booking first class travel London-Joha…

What if it were a 1% fudge above normal? That's frequent. Is it the liability of the pundit to check global markets? A billion to one odd would be unusual granted, but where is the cut off? Clearly this argument is not appropriate.

Conversely, bookies do not have to take into account whether pundits are likely making a mistake. Betting schemes thrive on the appearance that the bookie made a mistake. Either way, the places I know limit possible wins (e.g. 1000$ for a bigger, casual one). And even if not, they should be allow to take bets only if they can back it up.

That a pundit could not nullify the bet for the same reason is an edge the bank system abuses to no end. It's institutional. Since they don't have rigid rules for liability in computer security (e.g. in IOT and all the data ex-filtration cases) or code correctness only means the court would resort to opinionated decision on a case by case basis and precedent would only mean they can, not that they should, if the situation isn't exactly the same. There is bound to be precedent for exactly this case, which would open an avenue for abuse by the bookies. I don't think it's clear at all.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#132

Post by albertgoeswoof » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:34 PM UTC

okmokmz wrote: post #123

_carl_jung wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you. I think a lot of the other criticism is a buildup of frustration against bad customer rights, but in this case I am aligned with FanDuel. It is so obviously a genuine mistake that some dude is trying to capitalise on and make a big media hoo-hah out of. He's getting $500 and three free games, just take it and be happy.

>It is so obviously a genuine mistake that some dude is trying to capitalise on and make a big media hoo-hah out of If the situation were reversed, and due to a genuine mistake FanDuel showed that the customer owed the company the money, do you think they would simply accept that it was a mistake and fix it? If I had to bet I would guess that they'd attempt to collect the money using any means necessary just like the…

That’s not the debate though, that would be morally wrong obviously. The fan is trying to get money that he/she doesn’t really deserve, and it’s immoral.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, and setting a precedent that it’s a feee for all makes thing much worse for everyone.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#133

Post by lowlevel » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #3

And yet, you can bet that they'd collect if the error were in their favor. And they probably have. Absolutely disgusting.

Totally. Hopefully the judge orders they pay him over and above his deserved winnings if it gets that far.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#134

Post by mijoharas » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

drfuchs wrote: post #80

You might want to reconsider using “welching” in this context. And don’t change it to “gyping”, either.

I just now learnt the etymology for Welch. Thanks!

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#135

Post by EpicEng » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

iends wrote: post #126

EpicEng wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if it were 1M? 500M? 1B? They just go out of business? Your logic doesn't scale well and seems overly harsh. They offered $500 and a pair of tickets. The guy lost nothing, I think that's fair.

You may be surprised to learn that software bugs put companies out of business. They also can kill people.

I'm certain I wouldn't considering I've spent my entire career in cancer diagnostics and finance.

This is a completely reversible mistake and no one was harmed in any way (feelings don't count). Let's not go off the rails and start making Therac-25 like comparisons. This isn't some abstract problem; the issue is well defined, so let's stay within the realm of reason.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#136

Post by mdpopescu » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

librish wrote: post #130

Surprised at most of the comments here. If the line error had been for $82,000,000 would you have expected them to honor it as well? Whenever there's doubt side with the customer but this was such an obvious error that any reasonable better would have realized it. Had the better lost the money I'm pretty confident they would have refunded the bet as well (since the bets were voided).

Or 82 billion, or trillion... yes, I would expect them to go out of business. Same if they made a mistake that killed someone, for example. As others have said, what if the client (or they kid!) had made the bet online and entered a few extra zeroes (and lost) - would they have accepted "I made a mistake" as an excuse and canceled the bet?

You should not encourage a business to have a "head we win, tails you lose" policy.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#137

Post by modzu » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

ticmasta wrote: post #88

modzu wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it seems that errors are not uncommon and when they are "obvious" they typically void the contract. not sure why people are freaking out here. if you logged into your bank account and saw an extra zero that was caused by a temporary CSS bug, do you really think you are entitled to it?

If I remember my contract law, you're not 100% correct. Errors in the contract can be used as cause for severability or termination in some rare cases, but errors in execution are generally not. They're one of the reasons we have contracts in the first place. It is perfectly acceptable to sign a contract that in hindsight was one-sided. It's the pre-execution that requires mutual benefit. Otherwise every gambling wag…

maybe i should not have used the phrase "void"; in this case the contract includes a clause that says, "where a blatant or palpable error is made in... prices offered... bets may be settled at the correct price at the time at which the bet was placed". so more accurately, the incorrect price is voided

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#138

Post by modzu » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

modzu wrote: post #137

ticmasta wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember my contract law, you're not 100% correct. Errors in the contract can be used as cause for severability or termination in some rare cases, but errors in execution are generally not. They're one of the reasons we have contracts in the first place. It is perfectly acceptable to sign a contract that in hindsight was one-sided. It's the pre-execution that requires mutual benefit. Otherwise every gambling wag…

maybe i should not have used the phrase "void"; in this case the contract includes a clause that says, "where a blatant or palpable error is made in... prices offered... bets may be settled at the correct price at the time at which the bet was placed". so more accurately, the incorrect price is voided

i think the issue here is that in some states, there is an authority that needs to determine whether the price was an error, and that it cannot be at the sole discretion of the sportsbook?

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#139

Post by tk75x » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 7:04 PM UTC

dumbfounder wrote: post #33

cesis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like - dealer sold you the car for $19.95, then came after you and demanded the rest $19k because of the error.

If you bought it online you bet they would come after you.

I once saw a price for a car listed on a dealer's website that was much lower than the car was worth. Turns out when it was entered into the system, it was entered as the base model instead of the upgraded version with more options. The dealer offered to sell it to me at the lower price anyways if I put a deposit down.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#140

Post by thecatspaw » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 7:04 PM UTC

TomMarius wrote: post #121

sincerely wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case what’s the point of the smart contract in the first place?

Explicit and final agreement about the whole deal.

like an actual legal contract?