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FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

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Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#81

Post by maxerickson »

EpicEng wrote: post #77
maxerickson wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never written a bug in a system designed to earn me money and then denied responsibility for the consequences of the bug, no. That is, my argument is about how you decide responsibility, not about technical excellence.

So now it only matters in finance? No one lost anything here. It's ridiculous to expect a payout due to an error like this. You wouldn't get one at a casino if e.g. a slot machine malfunctioned. What if the payout was $500M? Should they have to pay that as well?

Sure, I'm entirely comfortable making life difficult for bookies.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#82

Post by ticmasta »

cesis wrote: post #30
dumbfounder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disgusting? So if you see a sign on a car for sale that says $19,95 because a digit fell off, the dealer is obligated to sell it to you at that price? People and systems make mistakes, that doesn't mean it's "disgusting" that they protect themselves financially from those mistakes.

It's more like - dealer sold you the car for $19.95, then came after you and demanded the rest $19k because of the error.

Reminds me of the story from SparkFun's founder where a nightly currency conversion batch process failed and set all prices to $0. If you had ever bought anything from them before I believe they honoured the purchase and sent out the order for free. If you were a first timer I guess you were S.O.L.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#83

Post by goobynight »

maxerickson wrote: post #8
blah-blahblah wrote: post #2

This will just add to the (necessary - don't get me wrong) tax on society that is our legal system. It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes. Fan Duel should send him some tickets to a game, try to create a positive interaction for him, and let's move on.

What's obvious about that? To me the obvious thing is that bookies have to honor the bets they sell and get to eat their delicious mistakes. It's within their power to improve their automated system to not offer stupid bets.

It might be within their power, but they are going to need to collect even more juice to get the system to that point.

That or they might need to close up shop.

Most people prefer the current system where they are able to make very dynamic sports bets, sometimes in real time, with the rare mistake.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#84

Post by ticmasta »

51lver wrote: post #43
dumbfounder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disgusting? So if you see a sign on a car for sale that says $19,95 because a digit fell off, the dealer is obligated to sell it to you at that price? People and systems make mistakes, that doesn't mean it's "disgusting" that they protect themselves financially from those mistakes.

Totally different issues. Making a bad sale and then later backing out, vs advertising a price that is not able to be confirmed at the time of sale resulting in no sale.

Lots of grocery stores give you the product for free up to a limit (say $10) if it is priced incorrectly or rings through different from advertised

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#85

Post by goobynight »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #45
setr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its accidentally $82,000. If you allow such a bug to be honored, then potentially it could manage a near-infinite payout. Such bugs becomes not a costly mistake but instead existentially threatening And we certainly don’t have a software industry capable of supporting that environment

Hedge funds seem to automate things in an environment where certain bugs are existentially threatening. They hire doctors of math and get their code correct. It's not impossible, just expensive.

Right. If you make system creation more expensive, the house needs to collect more juice.

I think most sports betting consumers here prefer the current, lower cost, more diverse system with a slightly higher error rate.

I'd reckon most people complaining here don't even bet on sports, but want to grandstand against bookies. I can understand that I guess.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#86

Post by shawnz »

wccrawford wrote: post #3

And yet, you can bet that they'd collect if the error were in their favor. And they probably have. Absolutely disgusting.

Do you have any evidence to show this? Or are you just making an assumption based on your dislike for the gambling industry?

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#87

Post by goobynight »

krupan wrote: post #24
setr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its accidentally $82,000. If you allow such a bug to be honored, then potentially it could manage a near-infinite payout. Such bugs becomes not a costly mistake but instead existentially threatening And we certainly don’t have a software industry capable of supporting that environment

We do too have software that can be that reliable. A aviation and space flight are quick examples. Gambling houses probably don't want to pay the cost of that software, but it could be done.

It wouldn't just be bookies paying that cost. It would be forwarded to the customers placing bets. I'd prefer to keep the costs low, since nobody is going to die and things aren't going to blow up. The worst that will happen is someone thinking they scored a huge payout and not getting it.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#88

Post by ticmasta »

modzu wrote: post #67
heavymark wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine if they had to honor, they would make it priority number one resolving those bugs, and make changes to make the bugs more apparent to people in the process. If they don't have to pay, there isn't much of an incentive to prioritize the fixes, especially since I imagine if the bugs are in the favor of the company they can make a lot of money.

it seems that errors are not uncommon and when they are "obvious" they typically void the contract. not sure why people are freaking out here. if you logged into your bank account and saw an extra zero that was caused by a temporary CSS bug, do you really think you are entitled to it?

If I remember my contract law, you're not 100% correct. Errors in the contract can be used as cause for severability or termination in some rare cases, but errors in execution are generally not. They're one of the reasons we have contracts in the first place. It is perfectly acceptable to sign a contract that in hindsight was one-sided. It's the pre-execution that requires mutual benefit. Otherwise every gambling wager could be challenged after the fact as mathematically the deal is biased to allow the book to arbitrage a wager!

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#89

Post by FireBeyond »

ticmasta wrote: post #84
51lver wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different issues. Making a bad sale and then later backing out, vs advertising a price that is not able to be confirmed at the time of sale resulting in no sale.

Lots of grocery stores give you the product for free up to a limit (say $10) if it is priced incorrectly or rings through different from advertised

That was a consumer protection issue from the introduction of scanners, to assure customers that the scanner wasn't a black box that would rip them off.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#90

Post by DannyBee »

Arzh wrote: post #27
DannyBee wrote: post #14

Yeah, a quick read of the relevant regs tells me Fanduel is gonna lose this one (Unless i've missed something)[1,2] The law on this is pretty clear, and they can't unilaterally decide not to apply the gaming regulations of the state, or change them through their contracts. (They can decide not to do business in states they don't like the regulations of course) BTW, somewhat hilariously, the part they "..."'d is just…

Good reply, I'm wondering they they will try to tie it to how slot machines handle errors ("All errors void play") which just payback the bet but don't payout.

In most states the regulations covering slot machines explicitly cover error. one of the most interesting parts is I can't find any part of the wagering regulations that cover error here. It's entirely possible they should but as far as I could tell they currently do not
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