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Firefox Reality Now Available

blog.mozilla.org

121–130 of 142 posts

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#121
post #58

That's nice and all, but now that the hardware has caught up, where are the collaborative multi-user 3d hyperspaces à la Croquet Project/Open Cobalt?

I think before they get big we needed a resolution update. Reading text is still difficult in VR and I can't see collaborative VR spaces getting big until texts start becoming more legible. Also I think we needed trackable office furniture and keyboards. Finding my keyboard blindly while in VR is a pain still. Once those issues are solved I think collaborative spaces will come. It's a good space for a startup to solve.

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage of this particular app is that it works on standalone VR headsets, which otherwise don't have access to a decent web browser. Also integrates with Web VR content so you can find and play web-based VR games and videos without taking off the headset. Other than that though I agree with you; apart from a few niche use-cases, right now this isn't really much better than just using the browser on your phone.…

I don’t think unlimited screen estate is really a thing; you can get yourself multiple 4K 50+ TVs for less than the price of a top line iPhone, but such an environment is not ergonomic at all. It’s much easier to switch desktops than to move your head and body around. I think planar screens will rule productivity for the foreseeable future.

The advantage of having lots of monitors is that it lets you organize your workspace spatially, rather than having to constantly deal with the cognitive load of manual window management. Tilting my head a few degrees to look at my email client which is _always_ in the same place on my right monitor is significantly faster and more intuitive than having to grab my mouse and click the email icon on the taskbar, or Alt+Tab through a stack of recent programs until I find my email client among them.

There are practical limits, sure. Most people are not going to want to turn their entire body around 180-degrees just to look at another window. Within those limits though I find that more space is generally better.

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#123

Hm, I don't get it. There is maybe a use case for VR to add immersion for games (like space sims or racing games), but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas? I mean it's a nice tech demo, but it seems like the 2000ish hype around these 3D-cube window managers that ... looked cool, but otherwise don't add anything to your workflow. Do people really want to work (e.g. develop) with a VR in…

One of the biggest things we've found that people like to do in VR is private viewing. They'll collect links of videos all day and then come home to watch them on a "big screen" but don't have a laptop or TV that supports miracast, so use a VR headset. Or they like to watch twitch streamers or their favorite movie providers or just bounce around searching content. As the hardware becomes more mature, we'll support mo…

A $15 chromecast can easily enable this? I'm surprised this is an actual use case.

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is the availability of unlimited screen space. Everywhere you look can be a monitor. Combined with the potential increase in productivity, and the use of VR offices for remote work, I can see a business market developing for this. I don't think we're ready to say monitors will go away. But I think all the pieces are there for VR headsets to be adopted by some companies once the resolution gets…

> Everywhere you look can be a monitor. But what's the advantage of that? You still can only focus on one monitor/window? The only difference is that you switch focus/windows via head tilting instead of keyboard/mouse, so I don't really see what that buys you.

No one looking over your shoulder?

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think unlimited screen estate is really a thing; you can get yourself multiple 4K 50+ TVs for less than the price of a top line iPhone, but such an environment is not ergonomic at all. It’s much easier to switch desktops than to move your head and body around. I think planar screens will rule productivity for the foreseeable future.

The advantage of having lots of monitors is that it lets you organize your workspace spatially, rather than having to constantly deal with the cognitive load of manual window management. Tilting my head a few degrees to look at my email client which is _always_ in the same place on my right monitor is significantly faster and more intuitive than having to grab my mouse and click the email icon on the taskbar, or Alt+…

Compared to tilting my head to the second monitor, it is measurably faster to type ^3 (Control + 3) to switch to the space/virtual-desktop where my email window is open (~1.5sec vs ~0.7sec).

If one has to Alt+Tab or Command+Tab through programs, yes, that would suck the life out of productivity.

The only real benefit larger screen spaces (larger than a ~30 inch monitor) provide me with, are when I need about 4-6 open windows (maximized vertically) to switch between when dealing with large merges/patches. I haven't experienced any practical benefits beyond two ~30inch monitors.

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#126
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once the resolution gets decent enough I can just get 20 screens wherever I look. Isn't that stressful on your neck? In the current environment you can also have 20 screens and switch via key-combinations or using the mouse.

I think this problem is solved already, see this video about TrackIR from 1:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AO0F5sLdVM (it is called motion scaling). Of course people may still get injuries from this if they do it for 40 hours a week...

In VR that would likely make you violently ill

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#127
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage of having lots of monitors is that it lets you organize your workspace spatially, rather than having to constantly deal with the cognitive load of manual window management. Tilting my head a few degrees to look at my email client which is _always_ in the same place on my right monitor is significantly faster and more intuitive than having to grab my mouse and click the email icon on the taskbar, or Alt+…

Compared to tilting my head to the second monitor, it is measurably faster to type ^3 (Control + 3) to switch to the space/virtual-desktop where my email window is open (~1.5sec vs ~0.7sec). If one has to Alt+Tab or Command+Tab through programs, yes, that would suck the life out of productivity. The only real benefit larger screen spaces (larger than a ~30 inch monitor) provide me with, are when I need about 4-6 open…

FWIW, I can easily shift my gaze from the upper left corner of my left monitor to the lower right corner of my right monitor in significantly less than half a second on my triple monitor setup (my measurements ranged from 0.2s-0.5s), so I'd dispute that part of your comment.

I also maintain that this is significantly more intuitive than having to memorize keyboard shortcuts for each of my more frequently used programs.

I suppose everyone's workflow is different though. If you're comfortable with just one monitor then good for you. I for one will be a lot happier once I can arrange my workspace into a neat grid of windows arrayed across my desk.

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage of this particular app is that it works on standalone VR headsets, which otherwise don't have access to a decent web browser. Also integrates with Web VR content so you can find and play web-based VR games and videos without taking off the headset. Other than that though I agree with you; apart from a few niche use-cases, right now this isn't really much better than just using the browser on your phone.…

I don’t think unlimited screen estate is really a thing; you can get yourself multiple 4K 50+ TVs for less than the price of a top line iPhone, but such an environment is not ergonomic at all. It’s much easier to switch desktops than to move your head and body around. I think planar screens will rule productivity for the foreseeable future.

I have dual 28" 4K monitors on my desk and can look to any corner just by moving my eyeballs. I would reorient my head when focusing on a window for an extended period, but not for quick checks to read notifications or bits of text scrolling by in a shell or chat window.

I use a side by side in landscape orientation, so a 7680x2160 desktop. I think this is about ideal width and dot-pitch for me. Higher resolution in the same field of view would be wasteful as the pixels are already too small to see individually unless they are high contrast. I still prefer mild RGB sub-pixel anti-aliasing on fonts in this setting. A wider field of view would also be useless for desktop tasks since I would not be able to comfortably scan it all. While I wouldn't mind a taller field of view, I don't have the budget nor tolerance to stack monitors vertically nor to switch to an array of portrait orientation monitors.

VR will not give me any screen "real estate" unless it has incredibly high resolution and wide field of view or has solved eye-tracking and zero-latency foveal rendering. I am not interested in turning my head constantly to shift a high resolution porthole around a blurry overview or (worse) a blinkered black void.

Because of the gap between monitors, I sit slightly offset and favor the right half of the left monitor for transient tasks. I keep chat and email windows open on the far left and tend to open a browser or editor on the left half (or two thirds) of the right monitor, while opening reference materials like PDFs in the rightmost extreme.

I do have traditional virtual desktops where a hot-key press can shift my displays to show any one quadrant of a logical 15360x4320 desktop. This is a holdover from my days on a single, lower resolution screen. I find that I use it far less frequently now, as I can indeed use the large visible area to organize things related windows spatially. I use it mostly for mode-switching between different sets of windows which may keep the same arrangement for weeks at a time. For example, one quadrant is my code-editing and communication space and another is a deployment/test suite/log-following space. I have room to open other reference materials or sample data around my code editing, and conversely room for other SSH shells and state-spelunking tools around my test and log windows.

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#129
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

layers.acceleration.force-enabled overrides "Acceleration blocked by platform" (you should see "Force-enabled by pref" right under it). But this indeed has nothing to do with video! This is layer compositing.

Sure it does, because it is part of the GPU hardware acceleration stack. https://askubuntu.com/questions/491750/force-enable-hardware... On my case for the EEPC 1215B Brazos APU it worked, like everything in Linux there isn't a solution that makes all desktop users happy.

GPU hardware acceleration has nothing to do with video decode. (Okay, the hardware is often on the same physical silicon die, but they're separate things in software.)

There is literally no support yet for any unix video decode APIs in Firefox. No VA-API, no VDPAU, no V4L2, no nothing.

Here's the bug for VAAPI: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210727

There's a bounty for it: https://www.bountysource.com/issues/55506502-add-va-api-hard...

Re: Firefox Reality Now Available

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas? Office managers are sooner or later going to find one VR headset cheaper than 2 or 3 large screens for tech work. At that point, you will be given a headset instead.

The cost of a few monitors every few years is completely negligible relative to the salary of the person sitiing in front of it.

So? Someone is still going to do the math, and if it comes up positive, it will happen.
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