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China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

nytimes.com

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Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#331

Post by bachmeier »

int_19h wrote: post #284
bachmeier wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imposing taxes on US consumers is looking out for US interests? That's a strange way of looking at it...

The idea is that it's temporary pain for long-term gain. Whether that's actually the case is debatable, but people who support those policies genuinely believe so. So you can call them misguided, but not irrational or inconsistent.

> The idea is that it's temporary pain for long-term gain.

No, it's not. There's absolutely no sense in which there is a "long-term gain" from imposing a tax on US consumers because the government decided they were buying the wrong products. If you have an actual argument to make in favor of these taxes, please make it. You're just parroting a talking point and providing no justification for something that doesn't make any sense.

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#332

Post by cromwellian »

sidstling wrote: post #299
cromwellian wrote: post #269

What would happen if say, Foxconn no longer assembled phones? How would Apple, for example, recover their supply in any reasonable time? You can't just spin up that capability overnight. Seemed to me that if China wanted to amp this up and play hardball, they could just give Tim Cook a phone call and tell him they won't be making iPhones anymore. Estimates I've seen is that about 40% of Foxconn is Apple products. The…

In what world would you close a billion dollar income stream to “win”?

A billion is small potatoes to the tariffs being thrown around, and Foxconn could probably fill much of that demand from other IHVs as one of Apples common strategies is fighting competitors by locking down parts of the manufacturing and supply chain.

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#333

Post by bildung »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #327
pankajdoharey wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You couldnt be farther from the truth. US ripping off European IP? Almost all of the IP in semiconductors in US based not european, yet EU pays nothing by means of producing satellite communication equipments. Name a thing that US ripped from EU?

I think the commenter is referring to further back, i.e. grabbing German Engineers and all that tech maybe?

A bit further even, 18th to late 19th century. The U.S. was stealing every kind of IP it could get from Europe, from patented inventions to reprinting publications ignoring copyright.

example source: https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...

The history of Hollywood is also a fun read, it basically came into existence by filmmakers fleeing from Edison demanding people to buy licences for patented film cameras IIRC.

Regarding IP, the US developed exactly the same as China does now: First the country was underdeveloped and mostly agrarian. In this period it stole IP massively, bootstrapping its own intellectual niches in this way. After a while those niches build up significant output and want to protect their own IP from others. The country starts to create and enforce its own IP laws.

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#334

Post by espadrine »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #274
gonvaled wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been cheating, bigger, better and longer. We seem to agree that this is not about fair trade, but that is what Trump is calling the whole thing.

Name one thing where US is cheating? US invents china steals that the only truth. Name one thing chinese have invented? Dont tell me gun powder, something latest.

> Name one thing where US is cheating?

It is an open secret that the US has waged wars and authorized covert action for economical purposes, eg. for control over oil.

> Name one thing chinese have invented?

Electronic cigarettes, passenger drones, synthetic bovine insulin, and the Nobel prize-winning Malaria drug Artemisinin.

(Not that I believe that Chinese companies were not lax with US IP, but that you try to instill the idea that China cannot invent and that the US does not mess international trade, which is not quite true.)

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#335

Post by teknologist »

age_of_stone wrote: post #311
teknologist wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those companies had to obtain ICP licenses and participate in forced partnerships and open up their servers to the government. Your claim of fairness here is simply quite laughable

Huawei would like to participate in "forced" partnership and open their servers to the US government in exchange US market access. But still, it's banned by national security. laughable?

Well I guess they shouldn't have put a backdoor in their products then. You're conflating two unrelated things.

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#336

Post by teknologist »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #275
teknologist wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an amusing point of view. WeChat is really the worst messenger out there from a technical standpoint. No attempt encryption at all (who knows if they even use SSL?) and the stickers and social networking features still resemble 1st gen. messenger apps

uh, what? it has many more features than any western messenger. what makes it appeal less to western audiences is that it is precisely tailored to chinese taste/lifestyle, which is distinctively different.

Which derails the parent's vision that it would be a popular messenger in the US. Uh, what?

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#337

Post by teknologist »

snaky wrote: post #281
notabot wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked Trump wasn't exactly a fan of immigrants either.

That's especially acute considering China is more and more opening to foreign labour - despite the fact there is no path to Chinese citizenship for foreigners, well, except Nobel prize and Olympic gold winners.

It would have a completely different effect in China though and serve to raise the average salary rather than reduce it. The fact of the matter is that foreigners are generally paid more in China (speaking from my own experience and that of friends and acquaintances who have also worked in China).

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#338

Post by mac01021 »

ElBarto wrote: post #282
joefranklinsrs wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue time is (and always has been) on US's side. US has the more powerful economy, and the consumer market that China desperately needs to keep afloat. In addition, time will allow US companies to move its supply lines out of China without triggering volatility in its stock prices.

China is approx. the same size as the USA but with 4 times the population. The US have the more powerful economy today. But given the above, once China is on a development path then it is simply inevitable that it will overtake the US. When I say 'time' I'm not looking at the next quarter or next year. That's shortsighted. I'm looking at 20, 50, 100 years. In fact, I would argue that the US government knows that and…

You think the Trump administration and the US congress are looking 50-100 years in the future?

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#339

Post by chupasaurus »

teknologist wrote: post #335
age_of_stone wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huawei would like to participate in "forced" partnership and open their servers to the US government in exchange US market access. But still, it's banned by national security. laughable?

Well I guess they shouldn't have put a backdoor in their products then. You're conflating two unrelated things.

Cisco is full of backdoors either.

Re: China Once Looked Tough on Trade. Now Its Options Are Dwindling

#340

Post by v_lisivka »

salimmadjd wrote: post #314
gonvaled wrote: post #74

Extremely one sided comments, with a US centric view. The world is not the US, and HN readers are not only US citizens, so let me express a different point of view. Assumption: Trump wants fair trade. HN readers want fair trade. What is needed: fair trading rules, fair IP rules, fair capital structures, and a fair currency. Tackling some of the unfair trade practices does not address all those issues. In particular i…

>And we have not yet started talking about the weaponizing of the dollar, which can be recently seen in the conflict with Iran. Not just with Iran, but everywhere. Most people do not realize the monopoly of USD in banking transactions. Essentially US can pass laws or even through executive order control the economic and trade policy of other countries. Turkey and India are barred from buying Russian equipments. This…

For me it like "Why I cannot trade some Americans? They say that they are free."

You are mismatching unrestricted (wild) market with free market. Market, to be free, requires someone to play role of guard and punish bad actors, who disobey rules. Otherwise, bad actors will convert free market into non-free in no time.

Usually, such power is granted to a government or to an association of traders.

Currently, world have no united government. We have WTO, which is our world trade organization, but it have very limited power.

Why have enough power and strict moral principles to keep market free? As you said, USA cannot do that, of course, so maybe it should be job of Russia, Iran, China, or North Korea?

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