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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#591

Post by ptaipale »

yurishimo wrote: post #516
pjmlp wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European cars have cruise control on manuals.

They said "adaptive cruise control". That's where the car will speed up or slow down based on the traffic around you automatically. Sort of like self driving but not nearly as demanding. Obviously manuals have had normal cruise control for decades.

Yes, but there are also adaptive cruise controls with manual gearbox, and it's a useful combination in highway traffic. Or even in suburban roads: I don't have it, but I use regular cruise control quite a lot on roads that have traffic lights every 1-2 km, and the speed of traffic varies between 40-70 km/h.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#592

Post by moonchrome »

philwelch wrote: post #396
skywhopper wrote: post #343

I love driving stick, but I have no illusions that I make better decisions about what gear to be in when than good automatics/CVTs, and I know I'm not saving gas the way I drive. Now, many automatics still bother me or even feel dangerous with their sluggishness, but there are great ones out there that I am happy to drive. But the American market is definitely to the point now where it makes total sense to just elimi…

Learning to drive stick is still a useful skill if you want to operate heavy trucks or ride motorcycles, neither of which tend to have an automatic transmission. It’s not an option that I would want to go away. Also, I might have used valet parking once in my life. Handing my car over to someone who can’t drive stick is something I’m willing to live without—especially when you remember that many car thieves can’t dri…

>Learning to drive stick is still a useful skill if you want to operate heavy trucks or ride motorcycles, neither of which tend to have an automatic transmission.

Learning how to shift gears is a small ammount of learning needed to drive those kinds of vehicles so once you decide to learn them you can just learn how to switch gears.

I learned how to drive 600 motorcycle before I ever drove a car, took me 1 hour to figure out gear shifting (well start/stop/second gear at least), learned uphill starts the next day. After 3-4 hours of driving I stopped stalling the bike. Took me 20-40 hours to get good balance and double that to become comfortable enough in traffic.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#593

Post by ptaipale »

Scea91 wrote: post #569
Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

I am not sure how in US but here in Czechia manual cars are considerably cheaper than automatic cars. I think many people drive manual for economic reasons.

That's partly a thing of volumes: the models that sell a lot go cheaper than models that need to be ordered specially for specific wishes. So, in the US, everyone assumes automatic and manual gearbox isn't any cheaper. In many European countries, manual shift is the norm and you paid a lot of extra for the rare luxury model with a weird transmission that eats a lot of fuel.

Nowadays, with DSG and other dual-clutch transmissions, the automatics have become more common also in Europe. I think my next car should be a Škoda Octavia with a diesel engine and DSG automatic.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#594

Post by J-dawg »

lostlogin wrote: post #588
J-dawg wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are interesting questions! I don't know the answers, but I guess international law is often bad at dealing with edge cases.

Is it an international law situation?

I am probably using the wrong terminology. I guess there are reciprocal agreements between countries to recognise each others driving licences. I'm not sure whether that counts as international law.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#595

Post by close04 »

J-dawg wrote: post #574
LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

Manual transmissions could offer 2 advantages today:

1) They are most likely cheaper and lighter than automatics. They make more sense in cheap small cars. So if cost is an issue you may opt for this.

2) They could be more fun, depending on the car they're on. There are people who genuinely enjoy being engaged while taking a drive for fun. The more disconnected you get and the more stuff is done for you, the more it feels like you're a passenger instead of the driver. It's not just about getting better mileage, or better acceleration. The manual can be part of the fun.

For almost all other purposes an automatic transmission is the comfortable, efficient choice.

This being said, automatic transmissions can still be infuriating in some corner cases where they just can't pick the right gear. As long as there's a way to shift manually that shouldn't be a problem.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#596

Post by ptaipale »

taeric wrote: post #225
bigger_cheese wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was learning to drive my parents taught me in an old early 80's beat up station wagon. It was manual and had no power steering and the worst clutch I've ever used to this day. It took me a long time to learn to drive. A few years later they sold the car and both my sisters learnt to drive in more modern automatics. My learning experience was miserable but after learning in that old crappy wagon I can drive jus…

Would you teach someone on a vehicle without power steering? :) Our truck has bad power steering. Such that it often handles as if it didn't have it. Holy crap is that a pain.

I taught my daughter using a car that had no power steering. But it was a Nissan Micra, so it was still physically possible for her to turn the steering wheel while the car was parked...

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#597

Post by tallanvor »

Fifer82 wrote: post #579
J-dawg wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over? Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America? These questions came to mind when I read your comment.

The US doesn't care if you took the test using a manual or automatic, so that restriction wouldn't be recognized. You'd get a ticket (or whatever the appropriate action is for the offense) for whatever reason the cop pulled you over.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#598

Post by maccard »

sologoub wrote: post #496
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

When in college and working full time, I used to start my day by driving through some of the worst of LA traffic 405/101 and then in the evening come full circle by going 101 to 23 to 118 to 405 and back to 101, essentially circling the west part of San Fernando Valley, Conejo Valley, Simi Valley and back to central San Fernando Valley. Now that was a commute! Total time on the road 4+ hours in a 6-speed manual sport…

> Now if I could only find a car without electric power steering... or any power steering at all... (Those old NSXs were a blast to drive!)

You want a Lotus. It's a glorified go kart. Even the radio is optional.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#599

Post by icantdrive55 »

hocuspocus wrote: post #581
LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

I believe the main issue in Europe was due to torque converters being inefficient. With expensive gas and small engines, the performance hit is non-negligible. Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price. And given that most people drive manuals in an idiotic way, they can easily be more fuel efficient.

"Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price."

1. These automatic transmissions are still the weak spot on most vechicles.

2. They still use clutch bands that wear. The trannies are anything but simple. Most mechanics farm out rebuilding a tranny. I would recon that a malfunctioning automatic transmission us the number one cause of junked vechicles, besides wrecked vechicles.

3. It's straight forward weekend job to replace a clutch.

4. We all know modern engines can put close to 300,000 miles on them. Manufacturers know it. There's a reason they only give 70-100k on the tranny.

5. A modern automatic transmission is not a simple fix. Even AMCO guys are learning on your dime (notice they won't just give a price for a complete rebuild over the phone? AMCO in San Rafael, CA. Yea, I remember you slick.)

6. When checking a used vechicle, check that tranny fluid. It should be pink as a baby's butt. (Even then--there's no guarantee. The seller could have just changed the fluid. It shouldn't be black, brown, or smell burnt.

7. Sorry about my tirate on automatic transmissions. I've been to Automotive school, and worked as a mechanic for two years. The Automatic Transmission always intimided me.

If anyone could come up with clutch bands that don't wear, well let's say, you could dine with the 1 percenters? Tyat that be hell though?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#600

Post by Reason077 »

J-dawg wrote: post #574
LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

Manual vs. Automatic is gradually going to become irrelevant as electric drivetrains gain market share.

Except perhaps for a few exotic sports cars, electrics use fixed-reduction transmissions.

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