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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#271
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take cars away from every group equally, then the poor are the least capable of finding an alternative (because they usually cost). In fact, if you take anything from the entire population in equal measure, its bound to affect the poor the most (because they’re the least capable of finding alternatives to the status quo). So in any such argument, they’d naturally become the front of the topic. If anyone is goi…

Then why have any standards at all, if any expectations are discrimination?

What? Who said anything about discrimination?

You're going to build blanket standards and rules without acknowledging its effects on the population, and the proportion of the effects on different groups within that population?

Without accounting for the migration process to the new standard?

Without trying to minimize damage across the groups?

Addendum:

There is a world that exists, and there is an ideal image of the world. We aren't going to suddenly transfer to the ideal version, but we're perfectly capable of pretending we can in law. Congress is perfectly capable of arbitrarily requiring that all cars today meet 50mpg, and declaring it law. But we do not want to do that, because it would stupid, and shut down industries and cities across the nation.

Regardless of whether this is what our ideal looks like, it's not a suggestion that takes us anywhere near it. When someone goes around advocating for it to people who do not already agree with it, the first question is whats wrong with it? And the first answer inevitably features the poor, because they're the most affected. And the next question is, by how much? And again, the best example is the poor, because they bear the brunt of the negatives.

Everyone else will also eat shit, but they get the most of it, and so they show it off the most, making for the clearest example of what damages a blanket policy might incur.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#272

I like manuals because they feel better to me. This is totally anecdotal but to me it seems like the stick keeps me more engaged with what's happening with the car so I find I tend to be less distracted. It also occupies a hand so it definitely prevents a lot of phone usage. If this could actually be proved I'd definitely welcome a return to manual transmissions as sometimes I feel like the only person not on their p…

> This is totally anecdotal but to me it seems like the stick keeps me more engaged with what's happening with the car so I find I tend to be less distracted.

Doesn't that go against the adage that after a week shifting becomes muscle memory or is there something else?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

To all the folks replying that someone will fill the gap in front of you: that’s the point. It isn’t about reaction time. It’s about letting traffic flow easier, not fighting with each other. It removes the need for your fellow drivers to feel a tension when it is time to switch lanes, to not have to make a risky maneuver. You get to relax when driving because now you aren’t competing to get to your destination, and…

This comes up often, but you gotta think about what would happen if everyone suddenly tripled the gap they leave in front of them. The same road surface would suddenly have 1/3 the throughput. I shudder to think what kind of traffic jam / commute time that would lead to at the edges of the road network.

I do appreaciate when people drive densely packed and I try to do the same (up to a safety limit). For merging there are turn signals.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#274
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely this. I used to think I preferred manuals for the sense of control. When I got a Tesla, I realized what I was really looking for was responsiveness. I also have an Audi TTS which is automatic but has a "manual" mode. Apparently it can shift faster than a human being, which makes it much quicker to leave it on auto if you're going for a fast 0-60 time. Just stomp on the gas and it'll shift at the optimum mo…

> When I got a Tesla, I realized what I was really looking for was responsiveness. Yup. The responsiveness of an EV makes even a Nissan Leaf feel surprisingly zippy. When I drive my wife's CRV (which has a CVT), it feels bad when I floor it to pass someone and I have to wait for the RPMs to increase before it actually really begins to move. Even in my manual BRZ, it takes me a second to clutch in, give it gas to rev…

My lust for the Roadster is at least partially offset by my desire not to be the kind of guy that drops $250K on a car. We'll see which wins out ...

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#275
For me, I prefer manual over automatic based solely on price. I also appreciate that manuals are less complex and more easily serviced. I think disposable automobiles is an affront to decency and I despise obsolescence of perfectly fine autos.

I'm eagerly awaiting the first 'open design' auto that uses easily acquired and interchangeable parts. I would also like to see the same in lawn mowers.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#276
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years ago, Brammo developed, but never sold, a 6 speed electric motorcycle: https://www.wired.com/2011/05/brammo-six-speed-tranmission The idea was that you got the low speed torque of an electric motor and the high top speed of a ICE. It was probably a marginal improvement though, and really more of a manual transmission nostalgia play.

That is interesting. The one electric motorcycle that I heard of that was super fast was the KillaCycle[1]. I think it only had one gear though and a 0-60 mph of 0.97 seconds. The motorcycle nearly killed it's owner[2]. [1] - http://www.killacycle.com/ [2] - https://www.engadget.com/2007/09/13/all-electric-killacycle-...

is....is that how it got its name? (serious question)

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#277
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned to drive in a manual. Now that my son is getting close to driving age, I wanted to teach him in a manual first, like I learned - and then I found out it's damned near impossible to _find_ one any more.

I confess I gained a ton of respect for Klik & Klack was when they gave the advice to not teach kids on a stick shift. This is akin to teaching a kid to ride a 21 speed bike. They can probably get up to that rather quickly, all told, but just learning the basics of balance and pedaling will already be difficult enough. Similarly, just learning the basics of the car will already be tough. Why add to it? Why not take a…

Geez, I learned to drive on a stick, so did a hundred million other people. It's no travesty.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#278
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was learning to drive my parents taught me in an old early 80's beat up station wagon. It was manual and had no power steering and the worst clutch I've ever used to this day. It took me a long time to learn to drive. A few years later they sold the car and both my sisters learnt to drive in more modern automatics. My learning experience was miserable but after learning in that old crappy wagon I can drive jus…

Would you teach someone on a vehicle without power steering? :) Our truck has bad power steering. Such that it often handles as if it didn't have it. Holy crap is that a pain.

That's because the steering wheel gears are different in a car made for manual steering than one made for power steering. The manual steering wheel has quite a bit more leverage.

I drive a manual steered car. It's no problem at all. It's more physical than fingertip control, sure, but I like that. You can feel the road better.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#279
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confess I gained a ton of respect for Klik & Klack was when they gave the advice to not teach kids on a stick shift. This is akin to teaching a kid to ride a 21 speed bike. They can probably get up to that rather quickly, all told, but just learning the basics of balance and pedaling will already be difficult enough. Similarly, just learning the basics of the car will already be tough. Why add to it? Why not take a…

Geez, I learned to drive on a stick, so did a hundred million other people. It's no travesty.

And I learned a lot of things without modern tools. Doesn't mean I was better for it. Or that I didn't make more mistakes than I might have, had I been given better tools.

Just look up survivor bias sometime. It is a thing. This is an common refrain of it.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

To all the folks replying that someone will fill the gap in front of you: that’s the point. It isn’t about reaction time. It’s about letting traffic flow easier, not fighting with each other. It removes the need for your fellow drivers to feel a tension when it is time to switch lanes, to not have to make a risky maneuver. You get to relax when driving because now you aren’t competing to get to your destination, and…

At least in my city in my commute this morning (~30 minutes), I was forced to hard brake 3 times to avoid having an accident with someone wedging themself in at the end of an exit lane.

I find the problem isn't people merging into your lane in front of you, but doing so badly (ie not leaving a safe amount of space behind their rear bumper and your front bumper).

Semi drivers have this even worse.

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