How America lost its love for the stick shift • Hacker News Board

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#201

Post by chillwaves » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #150

Fezzik wrote: post #116

That bums me out, but I get it. My first non hand-me-down car was a beat-up Audi A4 (manual) off craigslist that I loved for years and years as a ski bum. I am definitely one of the many "manual transmissions are more fun" people. But once I got that office job, even 15 minutes a day in city traffic with a manual angered me, so I transitioned to an automatic. Now that I am out of the city I would love a manual again,…

I found that having a stick in traffic was actually easier for me. I could keep it in one gear which meant not moving my foot from brake to gas (I could just use engine breaking and use just the gas).

Are you not still using the clutch when you come to a stop?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#202

Post by function_seven » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #196

pssflops wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My previous car, a 2008 Subaru WRX, in manual had cruise control; while it wasn't adaptive, it was the most important thing I will consider in any other manual transmission going forward. Stop-and-go traffic to my previous job made driving a chore and weekends weren't enough. I miss having that kind of control over the car, but the automatic Mazda3 I replaced it with has made that traffic an afterthought.

Would adaptive cruise control in stop-and-go traffic work at all with a manual? When the speed of traffic is vacillating between 0 and 30mph, there's never any one gear that you can stay in for long.

No, it wouldn't. Technically you could have it adapt within a narrow range of speeds, but it would be annoying, fuel-wasting, and worse than just dealing with the speed yourself.

CC on stick shifts works fine at steady highway speeds over a consistent grade.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#203

Post by sundvor » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #44

As mentioned at the end of the article, I hope all complicated car transmissions go away, and are replaced with dead simple reduction gears in electric cars. Transmissions are expensive to repair and replace, and are often the part that junks an otherwise servicable car when things go awry. While I empathize with car enthusiasts' loss of manual control, as a used car buyer, and person who enjoys cleaner air, I'm ok w…

I was chanting "electric cars", "electric cars" in my head the whole article and found the end of it very rewarding. :-)

Had a Mazda 3 Astina manual before, lovely car. I'd love a Civic Type R manual but most realistically my next car will be an electric one. Not in the market for one now, cars make you fat compared to other modes of transport, and currently using other modes is viable for me so sticking (sorry!) to that for now.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#204

Post by analog31 » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

I used to prefer manual. It was interesting and gave a feeling of skill. But the thrill is gone because the thrill of driving is gone, thanks to congestion.

Economy seems to be a wash. And quite frankly, I've observed that stick shift cars tend to be driven in "fun" mode, which is probably less economical.

I like... automation. I'm waiting eagerly for a self driving car. Meanwhile, my next car will probably be electric.

While my family still has one stick-shift car, my kids will learn to drive it. My daughter already has, and my son will, after he figures out how to drive the automatic car safely.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#205

Post by catdog » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #99

Except the article doesn't answer it at all. Why did America lose its love... when other countries (e.g. rich European countries) continue to buy majority stick? All of the reasons given for the US presumably apply to e.g. Germany too, no? Except no transformation there...

In Germany one reason might be that basically everyone learns to drive with the stick so it's the normal. To get a drivers license it's mandatory to go to a driving school and drive quite a lot of hours under supervision of an instructor usually using a car belonging to the school. While it's theoretically possible to use an automatic car nobody does that because you then are not allowed to drive a manual one afterwards.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#206

Post by mr_tristan » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

Related news: Americans spend considerably more time in traffic as well. (Here's a comparsion from 82 - 92 - 02: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/congestion_report/executive_summary...)

I'm not sure there's a significant market for cars in the US where traffic isn't a factor or hasn't grown significantly in the last generation.

Given that automatics are much nicer to drive in traffic, I sense that is a huge reason why there's just not much of a market for manuals. Unless the manual was going to be massively cheaper (and it's not), I can't think of a large group of people who would desire manual transmissions.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#207

Post by bunderbunder » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #78

Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

Are manuals not cheaper to manufacture and repair? Definitely in the UK since 90% of cars are still manual.

They may be, but probably not enough so to offset what having a manual transmission does to the resale value of your car in the USA.

I'd be willing to go with a manual on a used car that I am paying cash for, but, if you buy a new manual and need to finance it, you'll likely be upside down on your loan for an uncomfortably long time.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#208

Post by 0x00000000 » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#209

Post by rootusrootus » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:44 PM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #23

Thlom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t most automatic transmissions have that? My old VW Touran have paddles on the wheel for changing gears. I only use it when driving down steep hills though.

Yes, but automatics with "paddle shifts" have very soft transition and very soft/delayed gas pedal reaction; whereas dual-clutch/sequential with "paddle shifts" have very fast transition and very straight gas pedal reaction. The true automatics, or CVT, there's limited need (or fun:) in paddle shifts outside of hills, poor traction, etc. For sequential/dual-clutch, paddle shift operation is direct... and fun :)

The only thing going away faster than the manual at this point are dual clutch transmissions. Never really perfected in most instances, and the latest slushboxes actually outperform them. Faster shifts, more reliable, cheaper. I prefer my manual very much, but I have to hand it to the engineers, they've turned what used to be a performance-killing design into the best you can buy.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#210

Post by chillwaves » Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:44 PM UTC

kenhwang wrote: post #153

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does skipping gears get you that quick sequential shifts don't? My feeling is the opposite. Paddle shifters are the closest I'll get to driving an F1 car, and I've put a decent amount of time in with a racing wheel and pedals and racing sims and that's where I get all of my muscle memory for my Golf GTI.

I can still skip from 2-6 on a freeway onramp or 6-4 for passing faster than 8/10 speeds can go 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10. There's no point revving out all my gears in real world driving, I just want to reach the speed limit as fast as possible then go into overdrive. DCTs are very fast at switching into what they think is your next gear. They're quite slow at switching if you want to switch more gears.

2-6? That never happens. You'd probably blow your engine before you did it. Not many people hitting 50 mph in 2nd gear.