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A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

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Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#161

Post by WhompingWindows »

cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

It's not simple to just use buses and change all the regulation for cities to mass-adopt buses. Buses cost a lot of extra time in waiting and slower speeds, are often much less comfortable, require people to walk further on both ends, are less good in bad weather, and let's not forget: they are very infrequent on holidays/evenings, where we want less drunk driving but fewer buses will be on offer.

Buses are a good tool, especially when they're full of commuters, but they can't replace all the benefits of a ride-hailing fleet. Nor will they - many people, myself included, simply prefer to pay more for a taxi/lyft/uber.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#162

Post by zanmat0 »

fipple wrote: post #79
nradov wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several people (mainly women) have told me that they're afraid to take public transit in the SF Bay Area due to the other riders. I'm not sure how we fix that problem without restricting civil rights in ways that would be unconstitutional and politically unacceptable. It's a real dilemma.

You set rules for society and harshly punish people who break them. Look at Singapore.

Well said, and a brave reply at that. However, people in the US are too sensitive to even consider it.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#163

Post by zten »

lhorie wrote: post #149
almost_usual wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely the same in SF, Uber / Lyft notoriously double park illegally.

In SF, I see people double parking everywhere, Uber or not - and I mean _parked_, not idling. My kid's school literally spent 20 minutes last parents night begging people not to do that in front of the school (and it's _still_ a problem). Going westbound on Golden Gate st around Fillmore is one of the weirdest thing I've ever seen. You can see entire lines of double parked cars with no drivers inside (sometimes on bo…

> Going westbound on Golden Gate st around Fillmore is one of the weirdest thing I've ever seen. You can see entire lines of double parked cars with no drivers inside (sometimes on both sides of the road!)

That one's probably because of the McDonalds.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#164

Post by astura »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27
cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

I honestly, for the life of me, cannot understand this attitude. I just can't. I've taken public transport since birth, (by myself since I was 13). I've taken public transport all over the US and a few countries in Europe, including SF and NYC. The bus was my sole form of transportation for several years.

I've never once felt unsafe.

Mildly annoyed maybe, but never remotely unsafe.

Whereas I've felt unsafe driving through certain areas by myself at night. I've also felt unsafe driving when other cars were performing dangerous maneuvers around me.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#165

Post by axlprose »

macspoofing wrote: post #128
gammateam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be an anti-car narrative, or something insidious Why do you think limited-supply medallion systems existed in the first place? Come on this is just classic "I forgot why these regulations existed and now a 100 year old problem is being recreated" A form of limited licensing for ride-hailing companies can exist without any of the inputs from the taxicab lobby and work out really well.

>Why does it have to be an anti-car narrative, or something insidious Because there is an ideological (i.e. irrational) component to some objections. It's true. >Why do you think limited-supply medallion systems existed in the first place Taxi lobby pressuring municipal governments? I cannot imagine you using the past system as an example of a well-run program. There was never a good reason to limit the number of tax…

> any transportation option that incentivizes people not to own a car is good.

Are companies offering to pay you to drive people around, with little barrier to entry, in a tough economy where it's getting increasingly difficult to afford living in urban centers, not also an incentive to own a car?

More so, since the problem isn't so much about car ownership, but rather about the number of cars actually on the road at any given time: are these companies not also creating additional incentive for many existing car owners to drive their cars more in the hopes of earning extra cash? Because even when they're not actively giving rides, many of these drivers are still going to be driving around waiting for their next client. Then we have to take into account the fact that the shifts these drivers can potentially work are much longer than the amount of time an average driver would normally stay on the road for.

Incentives in a complex system are not an easy clear-cut thing to figure out, so it shouldn't be surprising that the incentives in one direction might actually outweigh and completely counteract the intended incentives of a plan in the opposite direction. Not saying that's actually the case here, but it's far from an impossibility, and it wouldn't require any malevolent bias to happen.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#166

Post by vkou »

pwned1 wrote: post #137
vkou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas tax does not go nearly enough of the way to paying for infrastructure. Most road maintenance is paid for by property and income taxes. $0.25/gallon is peanuts. New York (State) consumed ~135 million barrels of gas last year. That's 1.35 billion dollars of gas taxes. (Less in reality, because some commercial uses are exempt from these taxes, or can deduct them as expenses.) The NY DOT's maintenance budget, alone i…

Can you point to a budget for the NY DoT? I cant seem to find anything. The DoT web site is devoid of budgets and the state's web site doesn't help either.

I may be grossly misunderstanding the budget, but this is what I looked at. [1]

> The FY 2018 Executive Budget recommends nearly $11.6 billion for the Department, an increase of $749.1 million over the FY 2017 budget. This year-to-year change primarily reflects new capital investments in transportation infrastructure.

> Preventive Maintenance - Capital Projects Funds - Other $4,428 (million)

[1] https://www.budget.ny.gov/pubs/archive/fy18archive/exec/agen...

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#167

Post by fwip »

bhhaskin wrote: post #155
dublinben wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several countries have introduced women-only transportation options to mixed success: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11824962/Women...

I don't want to ride public transport as a man either. I don't need someone who is mentally ill babble at me.

I see what you're saying, but the threat of 'babbling' is less scary than sexual assault.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#168

Post by astura »

Spivak wrote: post #138
almost_usual wrote: post #96

I like the idea of ride sharing but the problem comes when it's abused to the extreme. It's not out of the ordinary for someone to order 3-4 Lyfts on the weekend in a single evening. That is a ton of unnecessary driving to hang out or fulfill the social obligations people have. I sometimes wonder what San Francisco was like before ride sharing. I imagine people would just pick a neighborhood and hang out there.

People chose a DD and then drove -- I mean it's not like we need a historian to remember back that far.

It's been my observation that, unfortunately, much more often people just drove drunk instead.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#169

Post by vkou »

kazinator wrote: post #84
vkou wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do I, but my income doesn't come with direct traffic congestion and road wear externalities.

And of course none of your income is spent on any groceries or other goods that arrive by truck. Motor vehicles could disappear overnight without a single inconvenience to you.

I already pay for that, through taxes - by subsidizing inefficient uses of public resources.

If some groceries (Which had to be trucked hundreds of miles to reach my table) became more expensive then other groceries (Which had to be trucked tens of miles to reach my table), I'd be able to discriminate between them, based on their cost, and, through my purchasing decisions, encourage more efficient use of public resources.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#170

Post by vkou »

nerfhammer wrote: post #24
kazinator wrote: post #9

Uber is worse for congestion than someone driving their own car, because in addition to making the same trip, the Uber car also drives considerable distances without a passenger.

but you have to average that against the percent of the time it's uber pool and has 2-3 passengers that otherwise would have required separate trips

What % of Uber rides in NYC, or other congested metros are Uber pool? Has Uber ever published data on this?

I have never taken a rideshare pool, and NYC is just about the last place I'd consider doing so.

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