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A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

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Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#61

Post by [deleted] »

longerthoughts wrote: post #57
toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A well functioning society requires effort. You can't unicorn app the hard work away. If transportation network consumers wish to use those services, they should be able to. And cities should tax those rides to offset additional congestion and improve public transportation. Everyone wins.

> If transportation network consumers wish to use those services, they should be able to. And cities should tax those rides to offset additional congestion and improve public transportation. Everyone wins. Would the revenue generated from those taxes result in successful public transit reform to address the issues that are pushing the public away? Not arguing that it doesn't, I'm genuinely curious because I don't kno…

[deleted]

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#62

Post by vkou »

kazinator wrote: post #19
vkou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas tax does not go nearly enough of the way to paying for infrastructure. Most road maintenance is paid for by property and income taxes. $0.25/gallon is peanuts. New York (State) consumed ~135 million barrels of gas last year. That's 1.35 billion dollars of gas taxes. (Less in reality, because some commercial uses are exempt from these taxes, or can deduct them as expenses.) The NY DOT's maintenance budget, alone i…

> Gas tax does not go nearly enough of the way to paying for infrastructure. Most road maintenance is paid for by property and income taxes. Ride hailing drivers pay income tax.

So do I, but my income doesn't come with direct traffic congestion and road wear externalities.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#63

Post by s73v3r_ »

nradov wrote: post #55
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Several people (mainly women) have told me that they're afraid to take public transit in the SF Bay Area due to the other riders. I'm not sure how we fix that problem without restricting civil rights in ways that would be unconstitutional and politically unacceptable. It's a real dilemma.

Well, you enforce the laws against sexual harassment, for one. We already have cameras on the busses and at the stations for safety; use that footage to prosecute people who do commit sexual harassment. As it becomes known that sexual harassment is enforced, people will be willing to do it less.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#64

Post by xkcd-sucks »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27
cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Dancers, drunks, bums, and buskers! clutches pearls

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#65

Post by CydeWeys »

kazinator wrote: post #9

Uber is worse for congestion than someone driving their own car, because in addition to making the same trip, the Uber car also drives considerable distances without a passenger.

Not necessarily. People also spend lots of time driving around looking for an empty free on-street parking spot. In some congested cities this can be a sizable proportion of overall traffic.

If the Uber is getting back-to-back trips, they're probably driving more efficiently on average.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#66

Post by reaperducer »

dantheman wrote: post #42
blondie9x wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding yourself? You think people continuing to rely on cars whether they drive or they are being driven is going to reduce traffic? Buses and rail reduce traffic not cars. Mass van pooling and what not can also help. We have to get off of cars and empty seats. Apps pushing cars and pushing ride sharing are pushing laziness and congestion. Why kid ourselves into thinking that Uber and Lyft are fixing the car…

Could apps pushing car services increase the number of people who don't have cars? Could it make owning a car more vialble? Could it increase the density of a city (due to less parking)? Could this make it more walkable? Could it make mass transit more effective? We should be encouraging ride sharing and working to eliminate parking; parking requirements make cities unwalkable thus making public transit ineffective.

>Could apps pushing car services increase the number of people who don't have cars?

Anecdotally, yes.

In the time that I drove for Uber, I met a number of people who gave up their cars because Ubering was cheaper than having a car.

To me, that makes sense because every time I move from a small city to a large city, the first thing I do is sell my cars. Then when I move from a big city to a small town, I end up buying new cars again.

Though I haven't lived in a large city since Uber became widespread, my family managed just fine with public transit, Zipcars, and taxis.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#67

Post by nomel »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #60
dantheman wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could apps pushing car services increase the number of people who don't have cars? Could it make owning a car more vialble? Could it increase the density of a city (due to less parking)? Could this make it more walkable? Could it make mass transit more effective? We should be encouraging ride sharing and working to eliminate parking; parking requirements make cities unwalkable thus making public transit ineffective.

Uber and Lyft are not ride sharing.

With Lyft, you can pay a few bucks less to possibly ride with others that are somewhat along the way.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#68

Post by nine_k »

lewis500 wrote: post #15

I don’t understand why this study is receiving so much attention. It’s not peer reviewed. It doesn’t contain actual data collection (the estimates are all extrapolated in a way the author considers reasonable, not measured data from traffic detectors or surveys). Schaller is not a researcher or engineer, but a consultant mainly working for taxi regulation. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. But I’m surprised the study get…

Maybe some people, especially urban-based, just like the anti-car narrative, so they link to it as to something that confirms their favorite POV.

I bet city officials in most places don't like ride-hailing companies, too, so they would gladly link to something like this, for the same reason.

Maybe every other reader would look at it and say: "Hey, this has no data, and the author's position produces an obvious conflict of interests". But the headlines, without this notice, would already be in many places, and look like a more or less established fact. All publicity is good publicity, you know.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#69

Post by reaperducer »

cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

There's a simple solution to this -- buses!

Yes, and no.

The less dense an area is, the less effective buses are.

If everyone lived in a dense, urban environment, buses would be great. But they're not useful for large portions of the population, in America at least.

I wish park-and-rides were more common. I'd use that, if it was an option. But for now, I'm not going to walk four miles to take a bus the remaining 15 miles to work.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#70

Post by reaperducer »

scythe wrote: post #23
cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

The buses are fine. What's missing are the little screens that tell people when the bus is going to arrive. If buses arrive every fifteen minutes, and people would be willing to wait for a bus instead of Uber if the bus will arrive in less than five minutes, then simply adding screens means 33% of people no longer hail a ride. Yes, there is NextBus, but anyone who's used NextBus knows that it often takes longer to fi…

What's missing are the little screens that tell people when the bus is going to arrive.

Chicago has these. And it's available as an app, too. I assume other cities have this, as well. It just needs to be more widespread.

And somehow you have to let people who don't take the bus know that it exists.

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