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A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

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Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#91
post #37

One of the biggest issues that I see is where the cars pull over to pick up / drop off people. They almost always just stop in the middle of streets, double parking. Rarely do they pull over into an empty spot that's safer for them and passengers. This often causes traffic backup, at least in the Boston area.

Definitely the same in SF, Uber / Lyft notoriously double park illegally.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#92

I don’t understand why this study is receiving so much attention. It’s not peer reviewed. It doesn’t contain actual data collection (the estimates are all extrapolated in a way the author considers reasonable, not measured data from traffic detectors or surveys). Schaller is not a researcher or engineer, but a consultant mainly working for taxi regulation. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. But I’m surprised the study get…

Wow, that's gross. Braess's Paradox says adding more capacity to roads can cause more congestion, I guess the narrative would be 'rip up roads to solve traffic' then? It really makes me sick to my stomach how often 'authorities' lack any background in formal reasoning, and see no need to apply it to decisions for the public welfare.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#93
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Several people (mainly women) have told me that they're afraid to take public transit in the SF Bay Area due to the other riders. I'm not sure how we fix that problem without restricting civil rights in ways that would be unconstitutional and politically unacceptable. It's a real dilemma.

While police and transit should deal with incidents that do inevitably happen, but I don't think fear of potential incidents is something they can fix. It may be that the person with the fear simply doesn't like to live in a large city.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#95
I live in Austin, which for a period of time had basically driven out Uber and Lyft with regulation. Then, the Texas state government overruled the city, and Uber and Lyft came back. I can say from personal experience, our traffic did not get the slightest bit better when Uber and Lyft were gone. However, our drunk driving rates did apparently go up.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#96
I like the idea of ride sharing but the problem comes when it's abused to the extreme. It's not out of the ordinary for someone to order 3-4 Lyfts on the weekend in a single evening. That is a ton of unnecessary driving to hang out or fulfill the social obligations people have. I sometimes wonder what San Francisco was like before ride sharing. I imagine people would just pick a neighborhood and hang out there.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#97
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Several people (mainly women) have told me that they're afraid to take public transit in the SF Bay Area due to the other riders. I'm not sure how we fix that problem without restricting civil rights in ways that would be unconstitutional and politically unacceptable. It's a real dilemma.

It's not such a dilemma - most of the "bad" riders are also fare evaders. If SF simply put in any effort to make sure that riders actually paid for their trips, that would solve 90% of the problem. Riding the bus for free is not a civil right.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#98
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made arguments like this one before, too, but I think I've finally accepted their pointlessness. Humans beings are, well, human beings, not emotionless risk-calculators. We feel less safe around aggressive subway dancers than we do in an Uber. And because we're human beings, those feelings matter. You're not going to logic humanity out of it. It's not an education problem, either. People will still feel this way…

Yes, I know, but it's still worth noting that subway dancers aren't actually "dangerous" on any sensible definition of the term. The feelings that you mention are far from universal and significantly educable. I find subway dancers mildly irritating. They've never caused me to fear for my safety. >we evolved in an environment that rewarded avoiding aggressive strangers and also in which automobiles did not exist. Peo…

> People from remote tribes who've never seen an automobile are practically scared to death when they first set foot in a city. Not being scared by cars isn't in any way the default attitude for a human to have -- quite the opposite

We shouldn't conflate the experience of seeing a big, loud automobile for the first time with the experience of driving or riding in one, which is designed to be so comfortable as to eliminate all sense of danger.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urban living is not without risk, and trashing the commons is not a solution. You can work towards making public transportation safer, improving public transit in general, and reducing the congestion caused by ridesharing (through congestion charges) all at the same time. EDIT: I'm not dismissing the inherent risks of public transportation and interactions, I'm stating it is a risk that must be accepted as a conditio…

Urban living is not without risk, and trashing the commons is not a solution. One either actively polices and maintains the commons, or it devolves into trash.

SF seems to have chosen to go the latter route.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#100

I like the idea of ride sharing but the problem comes when it's abused to the extreme. It's not out of the ordinary for someone to order 3-4 Lyfts on the weekend in a single evening. That is a ton of unnecessary driving to hang out or fulfill the social obligations people have. I sometimes wonder what San Francisco was like before ride sharing. I imagine people would just pick a neighborhood and hang out there.

Is it possible that the benefit of people being more easily able to travel around town outweighs the cost of the extra traffic?
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