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To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

nytimes.com

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Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#111

Post by krapp »

stale2002 wrote: post #75
krapp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's not the fault of libraries if society offers no more humane options for the homeless than to hang out there... nor is it the fault of the homeless.

It isn't necessarily their fault, but it still feels false to wax poetically about the educational and societial benefits of what is effectively a homeless shelter. Not to say that homeless shelters aren't useful to society. Obviously they are. I just doubt that this is what library proponents were thinking about when they talk about libraries.

>but it still feels false to wax poetically about the educational and societial benefits of what is effectively a homeless shelter.

Bridges and overpasses also shelter the homeless sometimes, but their other benefits remain intact, and not all libraries are "effectively homeless shelters."

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#112

Post by stale2002 »

krapp wrote: post #111
stale2002 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't necessarily their fault, but it still feels false to wax poetically about the educational and societial benefits of what is effectively a homeless shelter. Not to say that homeless shelters aren't useful to society. Obviously they are. I just doubt that this is what library proponents were thinking about when they talk about libraries.

>but it still feels false to wax poetically about the educational and societial benefits of what is effectively a homeless shelter. Bridges and overpasses also shelter the homeless sometimes, but their other benefits remain intact, and not all libraries are "effectively homeless shelters."

Indeed those things are both homeless shelters and provide other societal benefits.

The fact that there are homeless people living under bridges, does not take away from the value that the bridge provides.

This is not the case for libraries. For the ones that do act as homeless shelters, you may as well just throw away all the books, and everything, because you aren't going to be getting much work done there.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#113

Post by moorhosj »

fipple wrote: post #97
moorhosj wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a source for “normal people don’t use libraries anymore”? I live in Chicago and our libraries are pretty consistently packed with people of all ages, incomes, living situations, etc.

I don’t take my kid to the library because of the homeless people there. I don’t oppose government funds being used to provide daytime facilities for homeless people, I just don’t think it should be at the same location as the kids library.

Is a "kids library" different than an "adult library"? I use the library in my neighborhood and am an adult, is that ok?

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#114

Post by dragonwriter »

agumonkey wrote: post #28
housingpost wrote: post #2

I love the idea of libraries, but where I live most of them are almost as bad as public transportation. People fighting, being loud, people on drugs asking for money, so it's difficult to get comfortable to sit and read. Sadly you have to go to the suburbs to get a quiet library where you don't get hassled. Amazon certainly isn't the solution, but neither is having libraries be the daytime homeless shelter.

I wonder if there are tricks to limit these. Like putting libraries on the third floor without elevators.

> I wonder if there are tricks to limit these.

Does having an effective social safety net count as a “trick”?

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#115

Post by 3rdAccount »

eftychis wrote: post #100
Alex3917 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> STEM exists because science, technology, engineering, and math don't get the focus they need in the standard US education system. Pretty much every HS kid in America is required to take at least 3 full years of math and science if not 4. How exactly are they not getting the focus over art? Schools are cutting art programs left and right in order to allocate more resources toward things that get covered on standardi…

3? (Kind of Sarcastic) wow! Every single year/quarter of a person's basic education includes math and science (physics and then biology and chemistry, then a bit of cs) where I am from. Thus, worst case scenario a person has spent 9 years on that stuff (among other topics sure). Sure I can see art does not get a lot of focus from what you are saying and I do not have experience in your system to say what the balance…

25% being math and science might be a lot to you, but I think it should be closer to 50%.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#116

Post by eftychis »

3rdAccount wrote: post #115
eftychis wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3? (Kind of Sarcastic) wow! Every single year/quarter of a person's basic education includes math and science (physics and then biology and chemistry, then a bit of cs) where I am from. Thus, worst case scenario a person has spent 9 years on that stuff (among other topics sure). Sure I can see art does not get a lot of focus from what you are saying and I do not have experience in your system to say what the balance…

25% being math and science might be a lot to you, but I think it should be closer to 50%.

I think I kind of made the opposite comment (or you replied to the wrong comment not sure).

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#117

Post by qubax »

kenneth wrote: post #63

> [Libraries provide] welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. And isn't this precisely why normal people don't use libraries anymore? Because they've become de facto homeless shelters with unsavory guests who frequently smell awful or use computers for watching porn. I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests.

It's why I stopped going regularly. The smell and of course during winter, the constant coughing. But mostly the smell.

Wish libraries would be quicker about growing their online presence. I still don't know why they have stacks and stacks of books on shelves. And why do they have so many cds and dvds? Why not move it all online?

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#118

Post by dominotw »

moorhosj wrote: post #69
dominotw wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are right libaries in chicago burbs have positive and inspiring energy while those in the city have dull 'government' energy and are filled with sadness and grief. I love going to libraries in the burbs but can't wait to GTFO out the ones in the city when I am there. I highly doubt that these libraries in the city are helping the needy in any big way( I would like to be wrong on this one).

It seems to work for everyone in my neighborhood. Homeless, wealthy, children, young and old all using the local library. They have work training programs and children’s programs.

where is this if i may ask?

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#119

Post by 3rdAccount »

eftychis wrote: post #116
3rdAccount wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25% being math and science might be a lot to you, but I think it should be closer to 50%.

I think I kind of made the opposite comment (or you replied to the wrong comment not sure).

I think partly another comment and partly misreading yours lol, sorry about that.

It is a pity that we can't all be perfectly rounded for sure.

In the future, it'd be nice if you Kahn Academy everything starting in highschool and choose out of hundreds of courses on interest for the few electives you have.

Re: To Restore Civil Society, Start with the Library

#120

Post by eftychis »

tehwebguy wrote: post #101
eftychis wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3? (Kind of Sarcastic) wow! Every single year/quarter of a person's basic education includes math and science (physics and then biology and chemistry, then a bit of cs) where I am from. Thus, worst case scenario a person has spent 9 years on that stuff (among other topics sure). Sure I can see art does not get a lot of focus from what you are saying and I do not have experience in your system to say what the balance…

FYI HS is “high school” which is only 4 years long

I got that. Although not clear if they meant senior high school or what not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States

It is a bit unclear to me when someone says high school in the U.S. if they imply junior or senior or none of the above.

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