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Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

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Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#71

My Vanguard 401k home page has this helpful notice in the dead center of the page: "We think you need $7,840 more per month." Sure... That makes two of us. I guess it's extrapolating my current salary out and how much I'll need to save to live with the same income after I retire. That's not going to happen. Here's a helpful article to see how far behind you are in your retirement: https://smartasset.com/retirement/av…

According to the article you linked, based on your age (I'm in the same cohort), the average 401k is worth $91,000. Are you not contributing at all to your 401k? Did you get a late start, or have some hardship that required you to break into the 401k (divorce in my case)?

I've never heard the 3x annual salary in savings, but that also seems super extreme. Assume a salary of $100K per year... No one I know has ~ $300K in their savings. Maybe they have equity in their house, or other equity assets that get them to that sort of number on paper, but I've never heard of someone in our age group (40-50) just having $300K liquid in a bank account.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so that's a median per-worker wage of around $22/hour. But $14/hour is right in the middle of the 2nd and 3rd income quintiles [1], meaning a solid 40% of Americans don't even make that much. It's not a very strong argument unless you're OK with current poverty and lack of retirement ability trends for large swathes of the country. [1] https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/household-income-...

Read the title of the article again ;-) Most Americans can retire. And there's this pretty broad movement to rationalize middle class earners failing to save. For those earning under ~25k/year, I agree: it's challenging. Especially if they've got medical problems or other extenuating circumstances to deal with.

Under 25k/year pre or post tax?

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea that having a car and eating more than beans and water means you’re spending too much comes from those (slightly fanatical) Money Mustache followers. I agree that we should not advocate for a world where we have to sacrifice a middle class lifestyle in order to retire middle class.

If you're broke . If you're in debt, you absolutely should be making some sacrifices to get out of debt. Once you have some money saved, feel free to spend on the luxuries you most desire.

But you mentioned car and internet services, those are not luxuries in this day and age when they are required for work

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#74
The war on the middle-class continues:

- Nimbys—scarce expensive housing

- Higher-education costs skyrocketing.

- Negative wage growth for positions without degree requirements.

- Article mentions no more pensions.

Article subject not entirely unexpected. :-/

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#75

Plenty of people can afford to retire, but they spend money like fools and then wonder why they don't have any. Read The Millionaire Next Door or listen to Dave Ramsey and you'll quickly learn that you can save plenty on a low income or go broke on a high income. Savings, income, and wealth building are in fact three distinct and also interrelated things.

You're getting downvoted because it's a message people dont want to hear. We have advanced our standard of living, but haven't kept up our standard of responsibility. Our parents/grandparents didnt have videogame consoles, laptops, phones, coffee besides cheap store drip, meals out more than 1x per month, tattoos, anything from a spa etc. All of those were likely dumped into home equity (owning your home was the pred…

> Our parents/grandparents didnt have videogame consoles, laptops, phones, coffee besides cheap store drip, meals out more than 1x per month, tattoos, anything from a spa etc.

They also didn’t have six figure student loan debt, and their housing costs were not 50-75% of their salary. Video games and cell phones are small potatoes—-not what is keeping the current generation financially insecure, but they are visible “luxuries” that Baby Boomers can point to and try to shame people over.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#76

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

The referenced calculator is:

https://saver.oregonsaves.com/home/educational-tools/simple-...

"The assumed investment rate of return before you retire is set at 4%, compounded annually."

The S&P500 has an average rate of real return of 7%, which makes an enormous difference.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#77

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

It's staggering that this is the top voted comment. > car loan most of America doesn't have any way of getting to jobs without one > eat anything but rice and beans most people need fundamental nutrients from vegetables just to be able to survive, these vegetables tend to be more expensive than less healthy things > a >$30 month cell phone bill internet access gates opportunity in American and for many people their c…

> most of America doesn't have any way of getting to jobs without one

Two things:

1. That's patently false. Most trips in vehicles are between 1 and 10 miles in distance. Anyone without serious health problems can do that on a bicycle quite easily.

2. You don't need a car loan to own a car.

> most people need fundamental nutrients from vegetables just to be able to survive, these vegetables tend to be more expensive than less healthy things

My statement was about people who were broke and/or in debt. And it's not a 100% meal plan, but rice and beans is a good cheap staple food. You can add in cheap produce, too. The crux of the point is: if you're in debt and spending more than ~$1 per meal, you've got an easy way to cut costs.

> internet access gates opportunity in American and for many people their cell phone (which they cannot afford to pay for up front and therefore must lease) and its data plan is there only gateway to the rest of the world

Libraries have free internet and computers. And for cell service, using an MVNO, you can spend ~$30 and get 1GB of data, 100 mins of talk time, 100 text messages. (see Ting.com for example)

>any right to a Gatorade after shooting hoops at your dilapidated public park on a hot day, any right to 30 mins of entertainment after working your mind numbing job that drains of you all life

Are you serious? Getting out of debt is infinitely more important than having a Gatorade or watching Netflix. Especially when there are obvious free alternatives. Streaming Netflix hasn't been around a decade, and it's now "surrendering basic humanity" to go without? That's a pretty fragile position to take.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#78
post #6

I’ve been so poor my calculated net per month was minus $1000 for about 16 years while supporting a family. I worked and saved my way out of it and know that the inability to save for the vast majority of people is just bullshit. Its an inability to sacrifice and “suffer” in a consumerist society. They won’t make their own coffee or cook their own food or give up cable or Netflix or their cell phone or fix their own…

seems like you created a strawman you created and are arguing against that. >> and know that the inability to save for the vast majority of people is just bullshit. Its an inability to sacrifice and “suffer” in a consumerist society. How do you know this? median income (50th %) in US is 37k before taxes. The average rent is 1k, so 33% of pretax is going to housing but its definitely lazy people? >> I’ve been so poor…

Where are you getting 37k ?

First hit on google for usa median income is 59k https://amp.businessinsider.com/us-census-median-income-2017...

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#79
post #31
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself, friend. You weren't born entitled to anything. I'm in better circumstances than you for my generation but it's unlikely I'll live to retirement age (disease). Grousing about 'capitalism' or the 'corporation' (or The Man, man) isn't going to change a single thing. I envy your clear vision of who to blame and where the problem lies but unless you get into a career in politics you're not changing any…

Let's see what happens in a decade.

Indeed.

I know people who deliberately don’t save for retirement because they are betting that by the time they are old, the majority of people also won’t have enough, and the government politically can’t let elderly people mass-die on the street. When the non-savers vastly outnumber the savers, the retirement problem could be solvable politically.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#80
post #71

My Vanguard 401k home page has this helpful notice in the dead center of the page: "We think you need $7,840 more per month." Sure... That makes two of us. I guess it's extrapolating my current salary out and how much I'll need to save to live with the same income after I retire. That's not going to happen. Here's a helpful article to see how far behind you are in your retirement: https://smartasset.com/retirement/av…

According to the article you linked, based on your age (I'm in the same cohort), the average 401k is worth $91,000. Are you not contributing at all to your 401k? Did you get a late start, or have some hardship that required you to break into the 401k (divorce in my case)? I've never heard the 3x annual salary in savings, but that also seems super extreme. Assume a salary of $100K per year... No one I know has ~ $300K…

The 3x the article states means total retirement savings. 401k included. I really hope you know more than a few people with 300k in 401k if they earn 100k/year.
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