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Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

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Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#21

Post by Iwan-Zotow »

acchow wrote: post #4
dclowd9901 wrote: post #3

It seems to me work gave us exactly what we wanted. My parents both swear to work until they die. They seem to have conflated work with a sense of personal value. In doing so, they agreed to give up the kinds of niceties that would allow them to retire early, including pensions, 401k's and livable wages. All to earn just enough to pay the monthly financing bills. Now it's up to subsequent generations to get the calcu…

People used to retire by having a few kids who would take care of them. I prefer shrinking our population, especially as developing countries are rapidly growing.

> I prefer shrinking our population, especially as developing countries are rapidly growing

well, there is a beautiful song for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gO7uemm6Yo

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#22

Post by Scott_Sanderson »

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #13
Mc_Big_G wrote: post #6

I’ve been so poor my calculated net per month was minus $1000 for about 16 years while supporting a family. I worked and saved my way out of it and know that the inability to save for the vast majority of people is just bullshit. Its an inability to sacrifice and “suffer” in a consumerist society. They won’t make their own coffee or cook their own food or give up cable or Netflix or their cell phone or fix their own…

Downvotes are cool but counter-arguments are more convincing.

Wait there are downvotes on HN?

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#23

Post by yardie »

grecy wrote: post #2

In Australia the official retirement age when you can start to receive a pension (or access your own retirement money without penalties) was recently moved up to 67. The new Prime Minister just announced he won't raise it to 70, which was on the table. I think it's clear that's just a sign of things to come.

I find it completely ridiculous and totally regressive that you have to live in Australia to receive your state pension. It’s like a final FU to the workers who have spent all their life contributing to it.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#24

Post by russellbeattie »

My Vanguard 401k home page has this helpful notice in the dead center of the page:

"We think you need $7,840 more per month."

Sure... That makes two of us. I guess it's extrapolating my current salary out and how much I'll need to save to live with the same income after I retire. That's not going to happen.

Here's a helpful article to see how far behind you are in your retirement: https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-401k-balance-by-ag...

I'm 46, so I should have about 3x my annual salary in savings (I don't) and be putting in 8% of my salary into a 401k.

I'm going to go back to not thinking about this now like I usually do, as there's little I can do about it.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#25

Post by grecy »

boyter wrote: post #8
grecy wrote: post #2

In Australia the official retirement age when you can start to receive a pension (or access your own retirement money without penalties) was recently moved up to 67. The new Prime Minister just announced he won't raise it to 70, which was on the table. I think it's clear that's just a sign of things to come.

I’m fully expecting that to rise to 75 before I am able to retire. Feels like everything I get old enough to enjoy gets pushed out every time I get there. What annoys me is that those making the decisions claim it’s for the betterment of the country which is fine but are totally unaffected by it.

When I was born in Australia in 1982 my life expectancy was 72. I realize it doesn't work like that.. but I feel a lot like the big old Clydesdale horse in Animal Farm, working until you drop.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#26

Post by twmb »

grecy wrote: post #2

In Australia the official retirement age when you can start to receive a pension (or access your own retirement money without penalties) was recently moved up to 67. The new Prime Minister just announced he won't raise it to 70, which was on the table. I think it's clear that's just a sign of things to come.

What is lost in the discussion of retirement ages being bumped is that life expectancy has grown by two decades since the retirement age was introduced in the USA in 1935 [0][1][2]. The retirement age was originally past the point where most people died.

[0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/10/how-ret...

[1]: http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html

[2]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNLE00INUSA

I don't personally understand the expectation that average people be economically sustainable while jobless for two decades+. It makes sense to me to slowly increase the retirement age.

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#28

Post by grecy »

the_gastropod wrote: post #18

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

> 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal".

If we take that household income to mean it's two earners, they're each earning $14.75/hr ...

(assuming a standard 2000 work year), which is 40 hrs/wk for 50 weeks

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#29

Post by maerF0x0 »

programminggeek wrote: post #14

Plenty of people can afford to retire, but they spend money like fools and then wonder why they don't have any. Read The Millionaire Next Door or listen to Dave Ramsey and you'll quickly learn that you can save plenty on a low income or go broke on a high income. Savings, income, and wealth building are in fact three distinct and also interrelated things.

You're getting downvoted because it's a message people dont want to hear.

We have advanced our standard of living, but haven't kept up our standard of responsibility. Our parents/grandparents didnt have videogame consoles, laptops, phones, coffee besides cheap store drip, meals out more than 1x per month, tattoos, anything from a spa etc. All of those were likely dumped into home equity (owning your home was the predecessor to diversified assets in retirement savings).

Another thing that hasn't helped is the government has been printing money like crazy, playing a mind game that means even though you make 2x when you started your career, you might actually be really earning less. For example, my earnings have gone up about 6x across my career, but my rent has gone up 10x...

Re: Why work has failed us: Because no one can afford to retire anymore

#30

Post by tcbawo »

the_gastropod wrote: post #18

C'mooon > The IRA won’t make anyone rich. A calculator on the site estimates that if you’re 22 years old and making $14 an hour–saving around $120 a month–you could end up with around $230,000 by the time you’re 65 1. $14 / hour? The median household (yes, I know, household, but wait) income is the highest it's been since at least 1985 [1] at $59k/year. So $14 is definitely a bit lower than "normal". 2. Saving $120/m…

Fixed costs have gotten too high, and these prices are inelastic. I think the only way to fix it is wage inflation across the board.
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