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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

701–710 of 728 posts

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#701
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[E]verything is inherently political." My preference for the scent of lavender over cinnamon -- political. I'm against the designated hitter rule. Political too. I think my dog should not get into the trash. It's all politics.

Cyinism is political too. Of course not directly, but even the tinyiest things can and do become political. Hand gestures, clothing, music, choice of cars, choice of food, choice of words.

How is it cynical to demonstrate that a specific claim -- put across with unreasonable certitude -- is in fact flatly false?

Let me ask you: is De Morgan's theorem political? Directly? Indirectly?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people that are loudly ignorant, especially those that defend their ignorance vigorously, face consequences in professional settings. Sort of like Galileo did? Sometimes the societal norms of what is considered "ignorant" are wrong. If you haven't come across it, I would highly recommend the book Galileo's Middle Finger. It was written by a lefty who started her career as an activist fighting for the humane tr…

> Sort of like Galileo did? That you're comparing positions that advocate genocide to the thoughts of Galileo just shows your complete lack of genuine desire to understand.

Who said anything about genocide? The only specific position I have mentioned on this thread is dissenting from a corporate diversity policy. Do you have a genuine desire to understand what I am saying? If so, why would you suppose I am talking about positions that advocate genocide?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#703
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> please tell me if you think I left out something important. You did: the position of neutrality. The position of not taking a stance either way. The position of actually doing stuff, like, in the real world, orthogonal to that of politics. The area outside of politics. I observe, based on your comment 3 above, that you consider politics as all-encompassing. I reply: politics, as practiced currently, is a virus, whi…

> You did: the position of neutrality. The position of not taking a stance either way. The position of actually doing stuff, like, in the real world, orthogonal to that of politics. The area outside of politics. Everything is political. Pretending it isn't is a luxury that you yourself have, as a person who is privileged enough that they aren't in any way forced to think about the politics of any action they take. >…

> Everything is political.

Can you support your claim with evidence?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and absent mitigating circumstances I’d consider firing people who held them. Sorry, that’s just how I have to feel given everything that’s been going on these days.

> Criticizing of Islam's human rights record is deeply problematic. I’d consider firing people who do it.

On pain of Poe’s law, are you being sarcastic?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#705
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five seconds in Google Maps: Islamic Sharia Council 34 Francis Rd, London E10 6PW, UK +44 20 8558 0581 https://goo.gl/maps/uVXqgkMMTYx

http://www.islamic-sharia.org/ The Islamic Sharia Council is a community centre for Muslims in the local area, offering various services. It has nothing to do with implementing Sharia law in an extra-judicial court. Please stop with the fear-mongering.

You are clearly arguing in bad faith, as the "various services" on that website clearly include divorce as adjudicated by Sharia law.

If you don't believe me, take it from Trevor Phillips, the former UK minister who coined the term "Islamophobia."

https://www.newsweek.com/muslims-are-creating-nations-within...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#706
post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, new WSJ piece out today with a travelogue through a Islamicized UK town, including Sharia courts and ubiquitous face veiling: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-visit-to-islamic-england-1535...

There is nothing in that article about Sharia courts. Just a sentence about some Muslim guy handing out books and talking about Sharia law. There are no laws against that, or wearing religious clothing.

I'm done talking with someone who out-and-out lies.

"I later saw the Islamic Shari’a Council of Leyton. This community has religious, educational, business and legal institutions to maintain a separate identity."

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#707
post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also in the memo he stats >Your colleagues are afraid because they know that they — not their ideas — will be attacked. They know that all the talk of “openness to different perspectives” does not apply to causes of “social justice,” immigration, “diversity”, and “equality.” On this issues, you can either keep quiet or sacrifice your reputation and career. You shouldn't be called a racist because you think that the U…

>You shouldn't be called a racist because you think that the US should work to ensure no one crosses our southern border without permission. I would ask anyone who believes that the US should work to to control entry at the southern border to question why they believe this is an important thing to focus on. What is the root of that belief? Why should the US be exclusive? What benefit do you derive from keeping it exc…

Also interesting that they refer to the southern border. Is there something different about the northern border? Different type of people, perhaps???

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#708
post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is to calculate how much the prayer room cost, divide it per employee that wish to use it, and give each employee that money to do as they wish. No, the solution is to call it a "wellness room", and have it be open to anyone who needs it: diabetics who need to inject their insulin, nursing mothers, Muslims who need prayer time, etc. > If you have to ask attendees or speakers if they identify as a woman…

> it a "wellness room" A rather common solution that partly solves the issue of making the service universal. It could easily benefits one group more than an other, but at least it would be equally accessible for any religion to use as their space. Historically through there hasn't been many churches that successfully served multiple religions at the same time. My hat is off to those Muslims that will share pray room…

> Historically through there hasn't been many churches that successfully served multiple religions at the same time. My hat is off to those Muslims that will share pray room with nursing mothers at the same time.

In our company, there are multiple wellness rooms big enough to house a handful of people, with a queueing system managed via iPad. This solves the problem quite nicely.

> That the majority and minority belong to the common group called human

Just being human doesn't give someone the knowledge/experience of being on the lesser end of a power binary. If their conference is specifically to talk about, commiserate, and discuss strategies around being on the lesser end of a power binary, then what unique perspective would those on the greater end of said binary bring to the table?

If the only thing they have to contribute is the fact that they're human, then they have absolutely no unique perspective to give, and are thus unnecessary.

> Why do people in progressive topics (women in tech) think that people should be treated different based on gender?

Should be? No. They're recognizing the fact that they are treated differently. That's not a "should be" situation.

Much like recognizing and calling out racism doesn't make one racist.

> They would get the same bonus if they wish to attract any other group in the world.

Indeed, however this particular group has been historically discriminated against on a systemic level. Therefore, additional steps must be taken to ensure their inclusion.

> Is one group more worthy than an other?

Is your world really so simplistic that every attempt at inclusion is a zero-sum game?

> Everyone should have the same liberty to to organize events if they can acquire a space to do so.

They are, generally. So I don't really see why you're upset.

> Every month is a special month for some group. Every day is "day of X".

Are you seriously comparing Black History Month with something like International Bagel Day?

> Should we start ranking those

Nope. But some are bigger than others, so some will take priority.

> This not something that is measurable but rather completely up to the ever changing local culture to define how special it is.

And why is that a problem, exactly?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You did: the position of neutrality. The position of not taking a stance either way. The position of actually doing stuff, like, in the real world, orthogonal to that of politics. The area outside of politics. Everything is political. Pretending it isn't is a luxury that you yourself have, as a person who is privileged enough that they aren't in any way forced to think about the politics of any action they take. >…

> Everything is political. Can you support your claim with evidence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_personal_is_political

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are these white heterosexual Christians defending their identity against?

Against treats to that identity. Through most of the history, the threats were imaginary, and it was conservative majority who oppressed other people. Recently however, in places like Bay Area, the conservatives are no longer a majority, and consequently the treats became quite real, see e.g. https://www.scribd.com/document/368692388/James-Damore-Lawsu... I don’t think the right way to solve this is oppress, stamp ou…

> Against treats to that identity.

What, precisely, about other minorities existing threatens that identity?

You keep repeating this claim of threats, but haven't been able to articulate any.

> I don’t think the right way to solve this is oppress, stamp out, or discriminate people positively or negatively.

And yet that's precisely what the Google engineer linked to was doing by circulating his memo describing how he and others believed women weren't as "qualified" to be programmers based solely on their biology. Hence, why he was fired.

The only thing that cannot be tolerated in a tolerant society is intolerance itself.

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