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The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

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Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#71

Post by s73v3r_ »

4ad wrote: post #6
iicc wrote: post #5

The "Factsheet" this is about (7 page pdf - https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/fil... ) >All results presented here reflect site activity prior to obtaining consent; the picture may change dramatically once the user provides the affirmative opt-in GDPR requires. So, meh.

Yep. If anything, things are worse now. You HAVE to give consent to do anything useful on the website (so blocking the notice won't work), and in the consent form it's usually very hard to turn tracking off, full of dark patterns. Not legal from the perspective of GDPR, sure, but it seems that everyone is doing it. /edit: downvoted for stating basic facts, amazing.

"downvoted for stating basic facts, amazing."

Most people who complain about this just don't want to admit that they're not actually stating basic facts.

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#72

Post by s73v3r_ »

4ad wrote: post #27
jstanley wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't use sites that won't work until you give consent.

That's idealistic. In my country all the news sites, as well as the local commerce sites do it. Where should I get local news from?

Buy a newspaper?

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#73

Post by codedokode »

I don't understand why there is so much negative impression of GDPR. Most businesses do not need to track users; they do it only because they can and it is not forbidden. Let me give you some examples:

- Wikipedia can serve you pages without knowing anything about you

- You can download and use Debian distribution without providing any data about yourself. Microsoft can do the same.

- Internet shops like Amazon or Ebay don't need to track you. They earn money when you buy something and if they delete PII after the order is completed they still have the money. GDPR is not taking them away.

- Google can work just fine without tracking users. They show advertisement in search results, they get paid for it and they don't need to collect everything you have typed to earn profit

- Youtube can show ads and get paid for it to completely anonymous users

- Android and Google Maps don't need to track you. You paid for them when you bought your device, you don't have to pay once more with your data and opt into dubious "help us improve your user experience" scams.

- Netflix gets money from you anyway and doesn't need to track you

- Facebook doesn't need to track you across the web. It can show ads and get paid for it anyway.

Look around. Most of businesses can earn money without collecting any personal information. The ones who can lose because of GDPR are only shady marketing agencies, legal spam conpanies, data brokers and three-letter agencies. I don't feel sorry for any of them.

We should think about better protection of privacy and anonimity rather than worry about profits of Californian corporations wanting to make everyone their product.

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#74

Post by frockington »

patrickmcnamara wrote: post #59
frockington wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largest economy and military in the world are big reasons to play nice with America

Military doesn't come in to this at all. And similar arguments could be made for why American companies would play nice to the EU.

If I were a company I would target America first and Asia second. Due to increasing regulations, political uncertainty and lack of growth I'd shift the EU to third (it used to be an obvious second to me).

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#75

Post by s73v3r_ »

crazygringo wrote: post #44

I just HATE all the pop-ups asking for permission to use cookies now. Seriously, having to opt-in on a per-site basis has led me to loathe the GDPR. It's a usability disaster. I never thought I'd hate anything more than the "sign up for our newsletter" pop-ups... but these are even more pervasive. If I'm the kind of person who hates cookies/tracking, I'll just install a blocker and block it everywhere, and then white…

It's almost like these companies implemented things in the shittiest way possible, to purposely sour your opinion on the law.

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#76

Post by baseballdork »

codedokode wrote: post #73

I don't understand why there is so much negative impression of GDPR. Most businesses do not need to track users; they do it only because they can and it is not forbidden. Let me give you some examples: - Wikipedia can serve you pages without knowing anything about you - You can download and use Debian distribution without providing any data about yourself. Microsoft can do the same. - Internet shops like Amazon or Eb…

If you're looking for advertisers, all other things being equal, do you go with the advertiser who guarantees your ads will go to those most likely to have interest in your product, or do you go with the advertiser that will send your ads to random people?

Of course they _can_ serve ads randomly, but they're competing to provide the best value for those buying ads.

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#77

Post by vec »

4ad wrote: post #70
vec wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is idealistic. Idealism is how the status quo changes for the better. The short-term effect of GDPR is ugly interstitial pages and mandatory consent, but that's not the point of GDPR. The point is to make legally collecting user data difficult, annoying, and onerous in the hope that going forward more companies will eventually decide it's more trouble than it's worth. That'll only work if complying actually is a c…

The reason GDPR exists is to protect people who do not understand the complicated world of online tracking. If GDPR is effective only when said people are on the front line of defense, than the GDPR has failed. As a matter of fact, I do complain a lot, and I do file complaints about GDPR violations, but convincing my friends and family to even care about this stuff is science fiction (I've tried for over a decade now…

I dunno. Convincing my friends and family to care about Facebook's potential for abuse was science fiction, right up until it wasn't. Certain recent events in American politics took an issue that was abstract and invisible to the median consumer and made it very concrete and very visible.

Business and engineering culture around website construction is horribly broken with regards to user privacy. Changing that culture is going to take years of consistent pressure which existing interests are going to fight every step of the way.

In my opinion the ugly consent forms are the best thing about GDPR. A problem that techies have known about for years is now visible (and annoying) to the general public. Of course that doesn't restructure the entire internet overnight, but dragging the problem out of the shadows seems like a pretty good opening salvo.

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#78

Post by patrickmcnamara »

frockington wrote: post #74
patrickmcnamara wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military doesn't come in to this at all. And similar arguments could be made for why American companies would play nice to the EU.

If I were a company I would target America first and Asia second. Due to increasing regulations, political uncertainty and lack of growth I'd shift the EU to third (it used to be an obvious second to me).

Fair enough, but you'd be missing out on a huge market. And unlike Asia, it has a single regulation to follow for things like data protection.

If your company was unable to comply with GDPR, many wouldn't want business with your company anyway, especially other companies who are trying to comply with it.

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#79

Post by codedokode »

baseballdork wrote: post #76
codedokode wrote: post #73

I don't understand why there is so much negative impression of GDPR. Most businesses do not need to track users; they do it only because they can and it is not forbidden. Let me give you some examples: - Wikipedia can serve you pages without knowing anything about you - You can download and use Debian distribution without providing any data about yourself. Microsoft can do the same. - Internet shops like Amazon or Eb…

If you're looking for advertisers, all other things being equal, do you go with the advertiser who guarantees your ads will go to those most likely to have interest in your product, or do you go with the advertiser that will send your ads to random people? Of course they _can_ serve ads randomly, but they're competing to provide the best value for those buying ads.

Corporations want cheaper ads; I understand that but I don't understand why I should be tracked. They should develop better ads without violating someone's privacy or anonymity.

Re: The GDPR Is a Cookie Monster

#80

Post by aars »

snowwolf wrote: post #35

The dark patterns in play now to get explicit consent are pretty bad now though. Take Mashable for example. On first visiting the site you are presented with the option to "Consent" or view more Options (where you can Opt Out of all - except you can't really because some require Opting Out on the specific Advertisers site). But if you do choose to Opt Out all, they will then show you the initial Option box on every v…

I had an interesting encounter recently:

https://imgur.com/a/i1hm1TQ

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