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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#341

Post by jimmaswell »

cr1895 wrote: post #266
dddw wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime friends from outside Rotterdam cycle here, I warn them that it's not like te rest of the country. In Amsterdam it's not really frowned uppon if you go through a dormant red trafficlight, I wouldn't recommend that in Rotterdam. A lot of children in Rotterdam (in South) don't grow up with a bike, which is very much in contrast with the article imho. I'm just pointing that out that it's not a total idyllic bik…

>In Amsterdam it's not really frowned uppon if you go through a dormant red trafficlight, I wouldn't recommend that in Rotterdam. This really isn't limited to Amsterdam. Even at the zebra crossings where bikes are technically obliged to stop for pedestrians...they (and to be honest, I) most often don't.

The people who make these unreasonable regulations in the first place must know that they won't be complied with, which makes me wonder if their purpose was simply revenue generation all along.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#342

Post by jimmaswell »

rorykoehler wrote: post #174
neals wrote: post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

I would have killed to swap my 60-90min bus journey for your bike ride... and yes I regularly cycled for leisure in the conditions you mentioned. That said I know not everyone is a glutton for that kind of suffering which is why I am hopeful electric bikes will take off in a big way. The electric assist will make the wind (and hills) a non-issue and then you can just cruise anywhere if you dress right. If electric bi…

How many transfers does that bus route have? I'd prefer being able to use a smartphone/etc than having to bike all that way.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#343

Post by jimmaswell »

kazen44 wrote: post #66
tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

This is suchs a strange concept to me as a dutchman. Americans seem to think biking is mainly a sport instead of a mode of transportation. Most dutch people ride on bicycles which are either A) in a constant semi-broken state (students are notorious for this) or B) riding a luxery city bike (usually high income families).

Bicycling being slower, less comfortable, less safe, taking constant physical exertion, being unable to reasonably transport much on a bike etc. does make it seem like a sport or frivolity more than a practicality unless you can't afford anything better, even a motorcycle or electric scooter. Especially during uncomfortable weather.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#344

Post by jdavis703 »

u801e wrote: post #334
jdavis703 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way to eliminate turn conflicts except for eliminating all grade crossings. Even on protected bike lanes the right hook is still a significant risk. Drivers need to have it drilled in to their head to look before turning. Even if a bike isn't entering from a protected lane, there could be a pedestrian using the crosswalk.

> Even on protected bike lanes the right hook is still a significant risk. That's because the infrastructure design is deficient here (which is putting a straight through lane to the right of a right turn lane). Either the cyclist needs to stay in the lane that's meant for straight through traffic, or there needs to be some form of intersection control that only allows traffic to proceed in a phased fashion like a tr…

The hook usually happens at unsignalized intersections (e.g. an alleyway) in my experience. Adding more signals is not the solution. Nor is making "every lane a bike lane." Even in a wide sharrow'ed lane a driver will make a pass, followed by a right turn which cuts the biker off.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#345

Post by bigato »

tremon wrote: post #287
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

Basically everything, except one thing: the speed threshold where physically separate bike lanes are mandatory is 50km/h, not 30. That happily coincides with the in-city speed limit for cars. You will still find many physically separated bike lanes even on 50-kph roads if they carry heavy traffic, but it's not mandated by law. It just happens that sharing a road with cyclists also slows down cars, and that decreases…

> It just happens that sharing a road with cyclists also slows down cars, and that decreases traffic throughput.

The equation is not so simple if you consider that one person in a bicycle is one less car on the road, thus occupying a lot less space for the overall traffic.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#346

Post by magduf »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #160
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve stopped peaking over my shoulders ever since I’ve gotten a car with a bunch of sensors and cameras. Now it seems like it is more dangerous to take the time to look back and instead just rely on the fairly reliable sensor indicator in the side review mirrors. It’s not even like you can do both, unfortunately, since you either look here or there. I wonder how much driving will change with technology before we get…

I’ve stopped peaking over my shoulders ever since I’ve gotten a car with a bunch of sensors and cameras. When I ride in newer cars, I'm always surprised at how poor the outward visibility is. Front pillars have gotten enormous in order to house airbags, and the rear pillars seem to always be absurdly think with tiny, useless corner windows (for crush/rollover strength?). It's no wonder that you're more dependent on t…

Yes. Front pillars are thicker both for airbags, and also for crush/rollover protection, and rear visibility is bad because the beltline has increased, for crash protection and also for aerodynamics. Basically, cars now are MUCH safer than they were 10-20 years ago with these changes, but like anything, there's a price to pay, and it's visibility.

Luckily, rear cameras and radar sensors give me much better visibility now than I ever had with older cars that had more glass.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#347

Post by magduf »

underwater wrote: post #120
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve stopped peaking over my shoulders ever since I’ve gotten a car with a bunch of sensors and cameras. Now it seems like it is more dangerous to take the time to look back and instead just rely on the fairly reliable sensor indicator in the side review mirrors. It’s not even like you can do both, unfortunately, since you either look here or there. I wonder how much driving will change with technology before we get…

What car has sensors that can detect bikes or pedestrians? My Subaru has rear radar, which is great at detecting vehicles that I literally can’t see, but I would never trust that to alert me to bikes or people.

My Mazda's rear radar sensors alert me if there's pedestrians walking towards me when I'm backing up in a parking lot.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#348

Post by antisthenes »

neivin wrote: post #109
antisthenes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I don't get the economics of lime ebikes. You pay $6/hr to ride one, which, assuming a very generous average speed of 14.5mph (the maximum of the bike), is an end user cost of $0.41 per mile minimum. It costs me ~$0.35 per mile to drive a car. I also don't have to bother with any apps or worry about the battery being charged, both of which are inconveniences. Also, just to set the record straight, I own…

You completely ignored all the other costs of owning a car: insurance, parking, maintenance. You're paying much, much more than $0.35/mile my friend.

No, I didn't. That's an all-in cost of ownership (it's a cheap Kia, so the costs are obviously going to vary)

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#349

Post by magduf »

u801e wrote: post #335
magduf wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming to a full stop on a bike is downright dangerous. The act of unclipping from your pedal, stopping, and then starting again and having to clip back into your pedal is far more dangerous than just slowing down sufficiently to make sure there's no oncoming traffic. You're more likely to fall over when transitioning between moving and stopped on a bike than any other time, and falling over at an intersection is ver…

I've never used clips on my pedals when commuting because of the fact that there are times I have to come to a stop where I may not have time to unclip. Using clips while riding in city traffic is like using cruise control while driving in city traffic.

Riding without clipless pedals means your feet slip all around and you have to pay more attention to your feet while pedaling. Or you have to use toe-clips, which are a PITA because you have to flip the pedal over to get your toe in.

With clipless pedals, you just mash your foot in and go, and your foot is now in the perfect position and you don't have to think about it. But that transition time is more hazardous than simply having your feet on the pedals all the time.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#350

Post by magduf »

kalleboo wrote: post #203
Symbiote wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have loved that kind of independence at age 12, but with the fear of traffic, paedophiles, kidnappers and whatever, I wasn't even allowed to walk to the end of the road unsupervised.

When and where was this? Just curious. In the early 90's in the US at age 8-9 I was allowed to ride all around the neighborhood and to school, as long as I was with a friend and not alone. We moved to Europe in 1995 and by then most people had stopped trick-or-treating in the neighborhood due to the TV news scares of razor blades in apples and whatnot, it seemed like the public trust had hit rock bottom.

Today, in the US, it's flatly illegal for kids under the age of 12 to be unsupervised in public in many states, including Virginia.

It wasn't like this here when I was growing up.

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