Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 391 posts

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#201

Post by salty_biscuits »

billfruit wrote: post #175
bunderbunder wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, whenever I see articles about Dutch cycling culture, the thing that stands out to me is that nobody is wearing helmets. In the US, I wouldn't dream of doing that - it's just too dangerous, because there's too much risk of being involved in a high speed collision. But, after having spent some time in the Netherlands, it's come to feel like a minor injustice every time I put my helmet on. It's a little…

But is such casual cycling something uniquely Dutch? How is it different from the cycling culture in China, Vietnam, India or much of the third world?

Put Japan on that list

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#202

Post by twoWhlsGud »

skookumchuck wrote: post #47
tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

In Seattle, too. They look like they took a wrong turn at the Tour de France.

What part of Seattle are you talking about? During commute periods I see mostly people wearing "normal" clothing (well, normal for Seattle, anyway...) on bikes. Folks kitted up are usually out biking on the weekends.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#203

Post by kalleboo »

Symbiote wrote: post #115
neals wrote: post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

I would have loved that kind of independence at age 12, but with the fear of traffic, paedophiles, kidnappers and whatever, I wasn't even allowed to walk to the end of the road unsupervised.

When and where was this? Just curious. In the early 90's in the US at age 8-9 I was allowed to ride all around the neighborhood and to school, as long as I was with a friend and not alone. We moved to Europe in 1995 and by then most people had stopped trick-or-treating in the neighborhood due to the TV news scares of razor blades in apples and whatnot, it seemed like the public trust had hit rock bottom.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#204

Post by sxv »

bluejekyll wrote: post #157
ebikelaw wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived here for 20 years and I think you probably just have Stockholm Syndrome. The built environment is still trash and hasn't changed noticeably the entire time. There have been a few tiny marginal improvements, such as a handful of signals for bikes. Bike share I guess. Otherwise total stasis.

Which area of the city do you live in? I’ve seen numerous improvements to major commuter corridors over the years. Some examples: - Valencia street being narrowed and bike lanes on both sides, improved protection is being worked on. - protected lanes continue to be improved on Market, but it’s still not great. - the wiggle through the lower haight is nearly a bike boulevard - Ceasar Chavez, still not very safe, but t…

Not to mention the coast, Embarcadero to Marina to the presidio, all super bike friendly. In general I think the city is quite bikeable. Sure I wouldn't want my kids to bike around it, but I wouldn't want them in SF in general lol.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#205

Post by twoWhlsGud »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #97
PascLeRasc wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing is that Europe doesn't have nearly as many huge SUVs as America. Helps a ton with visibility, driver awareness, braking speed, and less momentum in collisions.

huge SUVs Oh yes, those huge things (trucks, too) with dark tinted windows are the pox on wheels. On a motorbike you sit higher and can look over regular passenger cars, and you can see all the road in front of you. But if you ride behind one of these antisocial fuck-you-I've-got-mine hulks you can't see the road, and it's life-threatening.

Yes, and apparently they're driving a big part of the increase in pedestrian deaths in the US

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/14/611116451...

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#207

Post by twoWhlsGud »

jodrellblank wrote: post #183
Scott_Sanderson wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But less than 1/10th as bad as cars, no?

Maybe. I'd rather breathe pedal bicycle air than internal combustion exhaust fumes, for sure. And I'd rather pay bike prices than car prices, sure. But, designing for not-cars feels like a choice of designing for humans or designing for bikes, not both. If things are close enough for walking then most people don't need bikes. If there's dense, regular, clean, affordable public transport, you can't really bring one bi…

Dense clean affordable public transport isn't, unfortunately. (At least in the US where we can barely keep our sparse, dirty, expensive PT running.) Bikes help bridge gaps in the transit network. That's one of the main reasons they're so heavily used even in the countries with the best transit. (Visit any Dutch train station...)

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#209

Post by schlumpf »

bluejekyll wrote: post #199
u801e wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You would also fail your driver's test in SF if you don't check for bikers when making a right turn. Infrastructure shouldn't be designed in a way to cause these types of turning conflicts. The general rule of the road is that vehicles on the right make right turns. Vehicles on the left make left turns, and vehicles in the middle proceed straight through the intersection. Turning conflicts, like what you're describ…

Drivers often make mistakes here, and especially bicyclists. A lot of cars try to turn from the middle lane, which makes passing on the left more dangerous for cyclists. On top of that, many cyclists attempt to pass on the right, while cars are turning right. You are absolutely correct, but so many people don’t know the rules well enough to even realize they’re breaking them.

Cyclists also willfully break traffic rules in SF with alarming regularity. Stop signs are generally regarded as ornamental, and even lightly traveled red lights. I am reminded of this every time my seven year-old cycling companion asks why such and such a person hasn't followed the rules when they blow past us.

Both classes of vehicles have to be diligent.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#210

Post by SECProto »

u801e wrote: post #184
neivin wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would also fail your driver's test in SF if you don't check for bikers when making a right turn. However, this isn't the case if you do your test elsewhere. SF has pretty good bike infrastructure and awareness. I just did my driving test in the city, and this was drilled into my head by my instructor.

> You would also fail your driver's test in SF if you don't check for bikers when making a right turn. Infrastructure shouldn't be designed in a way to cause these types of turning conflicts. The general rule of the road is that vehicles on the right make right turns. Vehicles on the left make left turns, and vehicles in the middle proceed straight through the intersection. Turning conflicts, like what you're describ…

By that measure, we shouldn't have crosswalks at intersections, and walkers should walk into the street, past the right turn lane, to avoid turning conflict.
Post reply on HN